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	<title>Comments on: Too sacred for public consumption -or- Disgusting the prophet&#8217;s wife</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/too-sacred-for-public-consumption-or-disgusting-the-prophets-wife/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/too-sacred-for-public-consumption-or-disgusting-the-prophets-wife/</link>
	<description>Mormon Arts and Culture</description>
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		<title>By: William H. Gardner</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/too-sacred-for-public-consumption-or-disgusting-the-prophets-wife/comment-page-1/#comment-38496</link>
		<dc:creator>William H. Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 02:05:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2504#comment-38496</guid>
		<description>I am the third son of Gene L. Gardner and I have the origional manuscript and am willing to print computer copies.  I live in Delta, Utah and could be contacted there.  Mother wondered about about the recomend not to print the story for open consumption.  At the time it as written plural marriage was not an item for open discussion.  Over the Past years it seems to be open for discussion more and more.  Shortly before mother&#039;s death in 1965 she gave me her material and suggested that sometime it might be printed.  The story is beautiful and if anyone were to become distressed by it I would be very sorry but not very sympathetic.  Mother printed 100 copies and I have just learned that someone had 1200 copies printed.  I do not know who it was and am not concerned but would like to discuss the story as I understood it has over a hundred pages.  The book I have has approximately 78 pages.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am the third son of Gene L. Gardner and I have the origional manuscript and am willing to print computer copies.  I live in Delta, Utah and could be contacted there.  Mother wondered about about the recomend not to print the story for open consumption.  At the time it as written plural marriage was not an item for open discussion.  Over the Past years it seems to be open for discussion more and more.  Shortly before mother&#8217;s death in 1965 she gave me her material and suggested that sometime it might be printed.  The story is beautiful and if anyone were to become distressed by it I would be very sorry but not very sympathetic.  Mother printed 100 copies and I have just learned that someone had 1200 copies printed.  I do not know who it was and am not concerned but would like to discuss the story as I understood it has over a hundred pages.  The book I have has approximately 78 pages.</p>
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		<title>By: TStevens</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/too-sacred-for-public-consumption-or-disgusting-the-prophets-wife/comment-page-1/#comment-37278</link>
		<dc:creator>TStevens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 20:38:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2504#comment-37278</guid>
		<description>I just finished the 19th Wife by Ebershoff - I am fairly confident that Sister McKay would not be well pleased.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just finished the 19th Wife by Ebershoff &#8211; I am fairly confident that Sister McKay would not be well pleased.</p>
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		<title>By: William Morris</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/too-sacred-for-public-consumption-or-disgusting-the-prophets-wife/comment-page-1/#comment-37241</link>
		<dc:creator>William Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 19:09:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2504#comment-37241</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m excited. The Giant Joshua, Vardis Fisher&#039;s _Children of God_ and usually one or two of Virginia Sorensen&#039;s novels can often be found in older library systems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m excited. The Giant Joshua, Vardis Fisher&#8217;s _Children of God_ and usually one or two of Virginia Sorensen&#8217;s novels can often be found in older library systems.</p>
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		<title>By: TStevens</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/too-sacred-for-public-consumption-or-disgusting-the-prophets-wife/comment-page-1/#comment-37240</link>
		<dc:creator>TStevens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:53:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2504#comment-37240</guid>
		<description>My local library system has a copy of Giant Joshua - I just ordered it!

Well, maybe only I am excited ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My local library system has a copy of Giant Joshua &#8211; I just ordered it!</p>
<p>Well, maybe only I am excited ;-)</p>
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		<title>By: Wm Morris</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/too-sacred-for-public-consumption-or-disgusting-the-prophets-wife/comment-page-1/#comment-37156</link>
		<dc:creator>Wm Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 18:04:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2504#comment-37156</guid>
		<description>I have the suspicion that there much about our modern minds that we&#039;re going to have to strip away in order to enter the kingdom of heaven -- and the same is true for our ancestors and there minds. This is not a statement on whether plural marriage is an eternal concept or not (I don&#039;t really know for sure -- that is I&#039;m aware of the way that statement has been framed by LDS with a variety of opinions, but I don&#039;t feel that I know enough or have felt enough to take a strong stance on any of those opinions), but rather a musing on how for all I love culture -- modern, ancient, Victorian or otherwise -- I have the suspicion that we are all going to have a bit of culture shock when we (or perhaps as the final part of journey to get to) reach our final destination.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have the suspicion that there much about our modern minds that we&#8217;re going to have to strip away in order to enter the kingdom of heaven &#8212; and the same is true for our ancestors and there minds. This is not a statement on whether plural marriage is an eternal concept or not (I don&#8217;t really know for sure &#8212; that is I&#8217;m aware of the way that statement has been framed by LDS with a variety of opinions, but I don&#8217;t feel that I know enough or have felt enough to take a strong stance on any of those opinions), but rather a musing on how for all I love culture &#8212; modern, ancient, Victorian or otherwise &#8212; I have the suspicion that we are all going to have a bit of culture shock when we (or perhaps as the final part of journey to get to) reach our final destination.</p>
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		<title>By: chosha</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/too-sacred-for-public-consumption-or-disgusting-the-prophets-wife/comment-page-1/#comment-37154</link>
		<dc:creator>chosha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 17:16:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2504#comment-37154</guid>
		<description>&quot;Polygamy IS disgusting if we try to understand it with our modern minds.&quot;

&quot;where a character falls over himself to explain that Mormons no longer practice polygamy...&quot;

A friend of mine got a civil divorce, but not a temple divorce because he didn&#039;t want to break the seal to his kids. He later remarried in the temple. He is therefore currently married (in the eyes of the Church) to two women who are both living. Lots of men are sealed to more than one woman, where one has passed away.

I&#039;m not advocating polygamy, but I think Church members have to be careful not to think that because polygamous civil marriages are not longer sanctioned by the Church that it is no longer part of the doctrines or temple-related practices of the Church. If you think it&#039;s &#039;disgusting&#039; you might want to consider the LDS teachings on the celestial kingdom a little more closely. Plural marriage is an eternal concept. It hasn&#039;t magically gone away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Polygamy IS disgusting if we try to understand it with our modern minds.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;where a character falls over himself to explain that Mormons no longer practice polygamy&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>A friend of mine got a civil divorce, but not a temple divorce because he didn&#8217;t want to break the seal to his kids. He later remarried in the temple. He is therefore currently married (in the eyes of the Church) to two women who are both living. Lots of men are sealed to more than one woman, where one has passed away.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not advocating polygamy, but I think Church members have to be careful not to think that because polygamous civil marriages are not longer sanctioned by the Church that it is no longer part of the doctrines or temple-related practices of the Church. If you think it&#8217;s &#8216;disgusting&#8217; you might want to consider the LDS teachings on the celestial kingdom a little more closely. Plural marriage is an eternal concept. It hasn&#8217;t magically gone away.</p>
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		<title>By: nosurfgirl</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/too-sacred-for-public-consumption-or-disgusting-the-prophets-wife/comment-page-1/#comment-37150</link>
		<dc:creator>nosurfgirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 22:56:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2504#comment-37150</guid>
		<description>Wow.  

I&#039;m really glad that many people have learned the value of examining our church&#039;s history more thoroughly and thinking through the implications as opposed to burying them.  

I&#039;ve had several moments of worry as I have begun to rewrite a story.  The feeback I got was to put more of the controversial elements of Church history into it.  I want to, but I also don&#039;t want to put off Mormon readers.  It&#039;s a fine balance... and no matter what there will always be the Sister Lees who will be offended no matter how delicately the subject is treated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m really glad that many people have learned the value of examining our church&#8217;s history more thoroughly and thinking through the implications as opposed to burying them.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve had several moments of worry as I have begun to rewrite a story.  The feeback I got was to put more of the controversial elements of Church history into it.  I want to, but I also don&#8217;t want to put off Mormon readers.  It&#8217;s a fine balance&#8230; and no matter what there will always be the Sister Lees who will be offended no matter how delicately the subject is treated.</p>
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		<title>By: Th.</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/too-sacred-for-public-consumption-or-disgusting-the-prophets-wife/comment-page-1/#comment-37134</link>
		<dc:creator>Th.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 03:51:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2504#comment-37134</guid>
		<description>.

Laura and I have bickered over the fiction/nonfiction thing before but ultimately I think we&#039;re both right. What we really need here is a complete literature.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.</p>
<p>Laura and I have bickered over the fiction/nonfiction thing before but ultimately I think we&#8217;re both right. What we really need here is a complete literature.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura Craner</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/too-sacred-for-public-consumption-or-disgusting-the-prophets-wife/comment-page-1/#comment-37133</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura Craner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 03:44:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2504#comment-37133</guid>
		<description>When it comes to _The Giant Joshua_ I&#039;m on Sister McKay&#039;s side. Blech. I did not enjoy that book. I don&#039;t even think I finished it. . .

Anyway, I think we do have to tell our own stories--but I think it&#039;s interesting how we define what our own stories are. Most of us choose to tell our own stories through fiction so we can massage some of the feeling and details for various purposes. Fiction, in many ways, makes it easier to get our own points across. BUT if it&#039;s context we&#039;re looking for, fiction falls short. Perhaps we should start telling our own stories by actually telling OUR stories--as in the non-fiction versions. 

Modern non-fiction leaves a lot of room for creative expression and also allows for plenty of contextualizing detail. After all, what is a memoir but an explanation of a person? 

I couldn&#039;t wrap my head around polygamy until I read my own ancestors&#039; accounts. Their journals made all the difference. 

Perhaps that&#039;s some of Sister McKay&#039;s frustration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When it comes to _The Giant Joshua_ I&#8217;m on Sister McKay&#8217;s side. Blech. I did not enjoy that book. I don&#8217;t even think I finished it. . .</p>
<p>Anyway, I think we do have to tell our own stories&#8211;but I think it&#8217;s interesting how we define what our own stories are. Most of us choose to tell our own stories through fiction so we can massage some of the feeling and details for various purposes. Fiction, in many ways, makes it easier to get our own points across. BUT if it&#8217;s context we&#8217;re looking for, fiction falls short. Perhaps we should start telling our own stories by actually telling OUR stories&#8211;as in the non-fiction versions. </p>
<p>Modern non-fiction leaves a lot of room for creative expression and also allows for plenty of contextualizing detail. After all, what is a memoir but an explanation of a person? </p>
<p>I couldn&#8217;t wrap my head around polygamy until I read my own ancestors&#8217; accounts. Their journals made all the difference. </p>
<p>Perhaps that&#8217;s some of Sister McKay&#8217;s frustration.</p>
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		<title>By: Th.</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/too-sacred-for-public-consumption-or-disgusting-the-prophets-wife/comment-page-1/#comment-37131</link>
		<dc:creator>Th.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 03:24:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2504#comment-37131</guid>
		<description>.

&lt;blockquote&gt;That said, if we worry more about context than about good storytelling, we’ll end up writing scenes like the one in Half Faked where a character falls over himself to explain that Mormons no longer practice polygamy in a way that doesn’t ring true with the premise of the scene. So, if nothing else, you’ll have to be very clever about how you introduce the context you want your audience to have, or you’ll have to be brave enough to let some things slide without fully explaining them.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I don&#039;t think the world is all that wicked and I feel it&#039;s better to tell excellent stories while trusting the audience than to give lessons cramming story into the cracks. One of my favorite people of all time is Moroni and I&#039;m reminded of what the Lord told him: 

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ether/12/26#26&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Fools mock,&lt;/a&gt; but they shall mourn; and my grace is sufficient for the meek, that they shall take no advantage of your weakness . . . .&lt;/blockquote&gt;

What&#039;s the worst that can happen? As He once asked someone else, 

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/122/8#8&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;. . . if the billowing surge conspire against thee; if fierce winds become thine enemy; if the heavens gather blackness, and all the elements combine to chedge up the way; and above all, if the very jaws of hell shall gape open the mouth wide after thee, know thou, my son, that all these things shall give thee eexperience, and shall be for thy good. The Son of Man hath descended below them all. Art thou greater than he?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

(Not to be overly dramatic or anything.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.</p>
<blockquote><p>That said, if we worry more about context than about good storytelling, we’ll end up writing scenes like the one in Half Faked where a character falls over himself to explain that Mormons no longer practice polygamy in a way that doesn’t ring true with the premise of the scene. So, if nothing else, you’ll have to be very clever about how you introduce the context you want your audience to have, or you’ll have to be brave enough to let some things slide without fully explaining them.</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t think the world is all that wicked and I feel it&#8217;s better to tell excellent stories while trusting the audience than to give lessons cramming story into the cracks. One of my favorite people of all time is Moroni and I&#8217;m reminded of what the Lord told him: </p>
<blockquote><p><a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ether/12/26#26" rel="nofollow">Fools mock,</a> but they shall mourn; and my grace is sufficient for the meek, that they shall take no advantage of your weakness . . . .</p></blockquote>
<p>What&#8217;s the worst that can happen? As He once asked someone else, </p>
<blockquote><p><a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/122/8#8" rel="nofollow">. . . if the billowing surge conspire against thee; if fierce winds become thine enemy; if the heavens gather blackness, and all the elements combine to chedge up the way; and above all, if the very jaws of hell shall gape open the mouth wide after thee, know thou, my son, that all these things shall give thee eexperience, and shall be for thy good. The Son of Man hath descended below them all. Art thou greater than he?</a></p></blockquote>
<p>(Not to be overly dramatic or anything.)</p>
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