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	<title>Comments on: L&#8217;Engle on the illusion of control</title>
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	<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/lengle-illusion-control/</link>
	<description>Mormon Arts and Culture</description>
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		<title>By: Luisa Perkins</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/lengle-illusion-control/comment-page-1/#comment-38402</link>
		<dc:creator>Luisa Perkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 01:01:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Alfred rocks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alfred rocks.</p>
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		<title>By: Luisa Perkins</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/lengle-illusion-control/comment-page-1/#comment-38401</link>
		<dc:creator>Luisa Perkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 01:00:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>As a kid in our recent Stake YM/YW skit quipped, &quot;It&#039;s rated &#039;R&#039; for &#039;Rong.&#039;&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a kid in our recent Stake YM/YW skit quipped, &#8220;It&#8217;s rated &#8216;R&#8217; for &#8216;Rong.&#8217;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Lee Allred</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/lengle-illusion-control/comment-page-1/#comment-38400</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee Allred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 23:26:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=3047#comment-38400</guid>
		<description>&quot;Jonathan: If reality is rated R, I want no part of it.&quot;

Here&#039;s a couple (non-sequential) panels from one of my DC Comics stories that sums up my feelings on the matter of &#039;art&#039; vs. &#039;reality&#039;. (The white-haired gentleman is Alfred, Batman&#039;s butler, btw.)

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n114/leeallred/sunshine_and_alfred.jpg

-- Lee</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Jonathan: If reality is rated R, I want no part of it.&#8221;</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a couple (non-sequential) panels from one of my DC Comics stories that sums up my feelings on the matter of &#8216;art&#8217; vs. &#8216;reality&#8217;. (The white-haired gentleman is Alfred, Batman&#8217;s butler, btw.)</p>
<p><a href="http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n114/leeallred/sunshine_and_alfred.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n114/leeallred/sunshine_and_alfred.jpg</a></p>
<p>&#8211; Lee</p>
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		<title>By: Eugene</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/lengle-illusion-control/comment-page-1/#comment-38399</link>
		<dc:creator>Eugene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 18:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=3047#comment-38399</guid>
		<description>&quot;And this is why art as self-expression is art of a lesser light.&quot;

This is a realization I&#039;ve fully come to recently. Maybe it&#039;s passing the half-century mark, but I find I&#039;m tired of angst and self-revelation. What I want to do is to tell an entertaining story, and better it be trashy than chock full of &quot;meaning.&quot;

This is what I think McKee is getting at: don&#039;t think that your &quot;meaning&quot; is so grand that you can dispense with story. The story is in control, not your deep thoughts, and you must always be prepared to move your ego out of the way and let it through.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And this is why art as self-expression is art of a lesser light.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is a realization I&#8217;ve fully come to recently. Maybe it&#8217;s passing the half-century mark, but I find I&#8217;m tired of angst and self-revelation. What I want to do is to tell an entertaining story, and better it be trashy than chock full of &#8220;meaning.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is what I think McKee is getting at: don&#8217;t think that your &#8220;meaning&#8221; is so grand that you can dispense with story. The story is in control, not your deep thoughts, and you must always be prepared to move your ego out of the way and let it through.</p>
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		<title>By: Patricia</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/lengle-illusion-control/comment-page-1/#comment-38398</link>
		<dc:creator>Patricia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 00:43:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Funny, I think I was just thinking about this faith as surrending of control business.



&lt;blockquote&gt;Artists have always been drawn to the wild, wide elements they cannot control or understand — the sea, mountains, fire. To be an artist means to approach the light, and that means to let go our control, to allow our whole selves to be placed with absolute faith in that which is greater than we are. The novel we site down to write, and the one we end up writing may be very different, just as the Jesus we grasp and the Jesus who grasps us may also differ.&lt;/blockquote&gt;


... And this is why art as self-expression is art of a lesser light.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny, I think I was just thinking about this faith as surrending of control business.</p>
<blockquote><p>Artists have always been drawn to the wild, wide elements they cannot control or understand — the sea, mountains, fire. To be an artist means to approach the light, and that means to let go our control, to allow our whole selves to be placed with absolute faith in that which is greater than we are. The novel we site down to write, and the one we end up writing may be very different, just as the Jesus we grasp and the Jesus who grasps us may also differ.</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8230; And this is why art as self-expression is art of a lesser light.</p>
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		<title>By: Th.</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/lengle-illusion-control/comment-page-1/#comment-38397</link>
		<dc:creator>Th.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 21:14:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>.

Luisa: I think this should prove a natural side effect of art from Saints.

Jonathan: If reality is rated R, I want no part of it.

But I will say that I think all tasks can be art and if art is creation then in all actions in all fields we have the potential to become more like our Father.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.</p>
<p>Luisa: I think this should prove a natural side effect of art from Saints.</p>
<p>Jonathan: If reality is rated R, I want no part of it.</p>
<p>But I will say that I think all tasks can be art and if art is creation then in all actions in all fields we have the potential to become more like our Father.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Langford</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/lengle-illusion-control/comment-page-1/#comment-38396</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Langford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 20:01:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I like this, though I think it&#039;s important not to believe that this is necessarily an experience that is unique to artists. 

What L&#039;Engle is describing here, I think, is grappling with the stuff of Reality (with a capital R)--which is also something that other callings in life may, and perhaps all should, involve. I have long thought that talents represent areas where the veil between our mortal selves and our divine potential is thinner than elsewhere, so that it allows us to have a particular kind of experience that we could not have otherwise, as we struggle to bring the best of ourselves to the altar while at the same time grappling as Jacob did with the things of God. I don&#039;t think it matters so much to God what the arena is where this kind of experience happens--science, art, farming, cooking, teaching--but rather that it DOES happen. 

One thing I can think of that makes this different for artists than for, say, scientists is that because art is supposedly an invented thing, we may have the illusion that art is and can be entirely under our control. We are thus perhaps particularly subject to the sin of Babel--of trying to rival heaven. Of course, it is also our calling (as L&#039;Engle points out) to imitate heaven in a perhaps more obvious way than many other types of work. (This is the basic paradox for the Christian writer: that in imitating God, our work is by definition both praise and blasphemy.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like this, though I think it&#8217;s important not to believe that this is necessarily an experience that is unique to artists. </p>
<p>What L&#8217;Engle is describing here, I think, is grappling with the stuff of Reality (with a capital R)&#8211;which is also something that other callings in life may, and perhaps all should, involve. I have long thought that talents represent areas where the veil between our mortal selves and our divine potential is thinner than elsewhere, so that it allows us to have a particular kind of experience that we could not have otherwise, as we struggle to bring the best of ourselves to the altar while at the same time grappling as Jacob did with the things of God. I don&#8217;t think it matters so much to God what the arena is where this kind of experience happens&#8211;science, art, farming, cooking, teaching&#8211;but rather that it DOES happen. </p>
<p>One thing I can think of that makes this different for artists than for, say, scientists is that because art is supposedly an invented thing, we may have the illusion that art is and can be entirely under our control. We are thus perhaps particularly subject to the sin of Babel&#8211;of trying to rival heaven. Of course, it is also our calling (as L&#8217;Engle points out) to imitate heaven in a perhaps more obvious way than many other types of work. (This is the basic paradox for the Christian writer: that in imitating God, our work is by definition both praise and blasphemy.)</p>
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		<title>By: Luisa Perkins</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/lengle-illusion-control/comment-page-1/#comment-38395</link>
		<dc:creator>Luisa Perkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 19:27:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This is one of my favorite passages from the book; in particular &quot;For the opposite of sin is faith, and never virtue....&quot;

Th: maybe artists were one of the types of people Joel saw when he wrote &quot;And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions....&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is one of my favorite passages from the book; in particular &#8220;For the opposite of sin is faith, and never virtue&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
<p>Th: maybe artists were one of the types of people Joel saw when he wrote &#8220;And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Th.</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/lengle-illusion-control/comment-page-1/#comment-38391</link>
		<dc:creator>Th.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 18:34:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>.

I&#039;m struck by how easily that description of the artist could be applied as a description of a prophet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m struck by how easily that description of the artist could be applied as a description of a prophet.</p>
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