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	<title>Comments on: LDS Market Mystery</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/lds-market-mystery/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/lds-market-mystery/</link>
	<description>Mormon Arts and Culture</description>
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		<title>By: Lee Allred</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/lds-market-mystery/comment-page-1/#comment-36393</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee Allred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 01:01:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2279#comment-36393</guid>
		<description>Addendum:

I&#039;ve tracked down the deal on the Bowker number. Bowker tracks bookstore sales _only_. Sales from supermarkets, Wal-Marts, newstands, drugstores, aren&#039;t included. 

That makes total sense. Romance sells very very well in those uncounted venues which would boost their overall numbers. 

And it also makes Bowker the correct set of numbers to talk about the Mormon mystery genre as nearly all Mormon market book sales are made in the bookstore -- DB.

-- Lee Allred</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Addendum:</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve tracked down the deal on the Bowker number. Bowker tracks bookstore sales _only_. Sales from supermarkets, Wal-Marts, newstands, drugstores, aren&#8217;t included. </p>
<p>That makes total sense. Romance sells very very well in those uncounted venues which would boost their overall numbers. </p>
<p>And it also makes Bowker the correct set of numbers to talk about the Mormon mystery genre as nearly all Mormon market book sales are made in the bookstore &#8212; DB.</p>
<p>&#8211; Lee Allred</p>
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		<title>By: MoJo</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/lds-market-mystery/comment-page-1/#comment-36381</link>
		<dc:creator>MoJo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 21:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2279#comment-36381</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;cience fiction in its classic genre sense seems to be rapidly dying…a subject too long to go into here.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Funny you should say that.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://dearauthor.com/wordpress/2009/05/29/readers-and-reviewers-online-donts/#comment-202901&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;A lady on Dear Author today commented on that.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>cience fiction in its classic genre sense seems to be rapidly dying…a subject too long to go into here.</p></blockquote>
<p>Funny you should say that.  <a href="http://dearauthor.com/wordpress/2009/05/29/readers-and-reviewers-online-donts/#comment-202901" rel="nofollow">A lady on Dear Author today commented on that.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Lee Allred</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/lds-market-mystery/comment-page-1/#comment-36380</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee Allred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 21:29:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2279#comment-36380</guid>
		<description>Thought the format looked familiar, Mojo. :)
 
Still surprised about Science Fiction/Fantasy edging past mystery. That&#039;s good news for me, potentially. I rahter suspect thought that it&#039;s fantasy that&#039;s growing; science fiction in its classic genre sense seems to be rapidly dying...a subject too long to go into here.

-- Lee</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thought the format looked familiar, Mojo. :)</p>
<p>Still surprised about Science Fiction/Fantasy edging past mystery. That&#8217;s good news for me, potentially. I rahter suspect thought that it&#8217;s fantasy that&#8217;s growing; science fiction in its classic genre sense seems to be rapidly dying&#8230;a subject too long to go into here.</p>
<p>&#8211; Lee</p>
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		<title>By: MoJo</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/lds-market-mystery/comment-page-1/#comment-36379</link>
		<dc:creator>MoJo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 21:11:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2279#comment-36379</guid>
		<description>Lee, it is RWA&#039;s summary, but it&#039;s taken from an industry stats book, for which I&#039;d have to pay $1500 a year to have access. It is attributed.

On the other hand, $725 million difference between romance and mystery&#039;s a wee bit of a gap. I doubt it&#039;s exaggerated too much, if at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lee, it is RWA&#8217;s summary, but it&#8217;s taken from an industry stats book, for which I&#8217;d have to pay $1500 a year to have access. It is attributed.</p>
<p>On the other hand, $725 million difference between romance and mystery&#8217;s a wee bit of a gap. I doubt it&#8217;s exaggerated too much, if at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Lee Allred</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/lds-market-mystery/comment-page-1/#comment-36378</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee Allred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 20:55:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2279#comment-36378</guid>
		<description>That looks like Romance Writer of America&#039;s summary, Mojo. :)  That&#039;s more in line with the stats I&#039;ve heard. except Mystery is usually quite a bit larger than SF&amp;F. Maybe the LOTR movie fantasy boomlet is getting a second wind.

Oh. I forgot to list the Susan Evans McCloud nvoel titles. A bit hazy after ten years, but I think they were THE LAST SUSPECT, WHO GOES THERE?, and MYSTERY BY THE SEA, not neccessarily in order.

-- Lee Allred</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That looks like Romance Writer of America&#8217;s summary, Mojo. :)  That&#8217;s more in line with the stats I&#8217;ve heard. except Mystery is usually quite a bit larger than SF&amp;F. Maybe the LOTR movie fantasy boomlet is getting a second wind.</p>
<p>Oh. I forgot to list the Susan Evans McCloud nvoel titles. A bit hazy after ten years, but I think they were THE LAST SUSPECT, WHO GOES THERE?, and MYSTERY BY THE SEA, not neccessarily in order.</p>
<p>&#8211; Lee Allred</p>
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		<title>By: nosurfgirl</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/lds-market-mystery/comment-page-1/#comment-36377</link>
		<dc:creator>nosurfgirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 20:52:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2279#comment-36377</guid>
		<description>&quot;complain when writers try to write LDS versions of such works&quot;

Yes, especially if the &quot;LDS&quot; version means the mystery has to be low on suspense, low on danger, (basically low on tension and therefore, low on plot.)

I think that LDS publishers have a hard task, trying to please everyone and minimize complaints.  Everyone has their own version of what is &quot;unrighteous&quot; in fiction.  By elimiating everything that could be construed by an LDS audience as unrighteous or &quot;not Mormon enough&quot; we end up bereft of really exciting or well-written books.  It&#039;s sad, and I think its a reflection of a larger problem within Mormon culture.

That having been said:  There are some excellent, gripping LDS books out there.  There are even some that verge on literary fiction.  One of my favorites:  The Kaliedescope Season, by Sharon Downing Jarvis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;complain when writers try to write LDS versions of such works&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, especially if the &#8220;LDS&#8221; version means the mystery has to be low on suspense, low on danger, (basically low on tension and therefore, low on plot.)</p>
<p>I think that LDS publishers have a hard task, trying to please everyone and minimize complaints.  Everyone has their own version of what is &#8220;unrighteous&#8221; in fiction.  By elimiating everything that could be construed by an LDS audience as unrighteous or &#8220;not Mormon enough&#8221; we end up bereft of really exciting or well-written books.  It&#8217;s sad, and I think its a reflection of a larger problem within Mormon culture.</p>
<p>That having been said:  There are some excellent, gripping LDS books out there.  There are even some that verge on literary fiction.  One of my favorites:  The Kaliedescope Season, by Sharon Downing Jarvis.</p>
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		<title>By: MoJo</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/lds-market-mystery/comment-page-1/#comment-36372</link>
		<dc:creator>MoJo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 17:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2279#comment-36372</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know how I missed this.

The following numbers are from 2007, granted, but I very much doubt that the stats have reversed themselves so drastically from 2007 to 2008.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Romance Sales
&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;(source: Business of Consumer Book Publishing 2008)&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;

* Romance fiction generated $1.375 billion in sales in 2007.

* Approximately 8,090 romance titles were released in 2007.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;Market Share of Romance Fiction
&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;(source: Business of Consumer Book Publishing 2008)&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;

* Romance fiction is the biggest fiction category in 2007.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;Romance Market Share Compared to Other Genres
&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;(source: Simba Information estimates)&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;

* Romance fiction: $1.375 billion in estimated revenue for 2007

Religion/inspirational: $819 million

Science fiction/fantasy: $700 million

Mystery: $650 million

Classic literary fiction: $466 million&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;Of those who read books in 2007, one in five read romance novels.
&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;(AP-Ipsos Poll)&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I agree with Jonathan that the national market takes care of this well enough. My mother only reads mysteries and I doubt she&#039;d think to look to Deseret for her titles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know how I missed this.</p>
<p>The following numbers are from 2007, granted, but I very much doubt that the stats have reversed themselves so drastically from 2007 to 2008.</p>
<blockquote><p>Romance Sales<br />
<i><b>(source: Business of Consumer Book Publishing 2008)</b></i></p>
<p>* Romance fiction generated $1.375 billion in sales in 2007.</p>
<p>* Approximately 8,090 romance titles were released in 2007.</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>Market Share of Romance Fiction<br />
<i><b>(source: Business of Consumer Book Publishing 2008)</b></i></p>
<p>* Romance fiction is the biggest fiction category in 2007.</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>Romance Market Share Compared to Other Genres<br />
<i><b>(source: Simba Information estimates)</b></i></p>
<p>* Romance fiction: $1.375 billion in estimated revenue for 2007</p>
<p>Religion/inspirational: $819 million</p>
<p>Science fiction/fantasy: $700 million</p>
<p>Mystery: $650 million</p>
<p>Classic literary fiction: $466 million</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>Of those who read books in 2007, one in five read romance novels.<br />
<i><b>(AP-Ipsos Poll)</b></i>
</p></blockquote>
<p>I agree with Jonathan that the national market takes care of this well enough. My mother only reads mysteries and I doubt she&#8217;d think to look to Deseret for her titles.</p>
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		<title>By: Lee Allred</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/lds-market-mystery/comment-page-1/#comment-36371</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee Allred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 16:36:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2279#comment-36371</guid>
		<description>1) Kent, an observation, not an arguement: those PubTrack numbers are a bit off from the genre market breakdowns I usually heard. Usually Romance is around 50% of the pie with Mystery about 25%. A breakdown like you&#039;ve quoted would be a rather dramatic shift in the market.  Intriguing.

2) In the mid/late 1990s Bookcraft published a mystery series* by Susan Evans McCloud (of LIKEN TO US FAME for all you old Seminary students :) ). 

They were very nicely done, but apparently didn&#039;t do well. I&#039;m not sure precisely why, but there were a few strikes against the books.

a) They read like national market mystery books (quality and substance). They had all the expected conventinos of a national market mystery genre book. There were very few if any LDS elements in the story. If I recall the main character, a young woman, was a Mormon, but  that fact was never really played up in the rest of the books. Other than having Bookcraft on the spine, they could have been national market books. Perhaps they weren&#039;t Mormon enough.

b) Somewhat cross-genre. There was a romance subplot invovling the recurring characters and the book set on the Cornish coast had gothic/ghost story elements. Maybe a bit too much romance for the straight mystery readers and too much mystery for the romance readers.

c) Odd time period/locale. The book was set in Britian just after the Great War. A possbile plus for national market, but possibly a minus for the Mormon market.

It is possible that the limited success of this series may have poisoned the well for future Mormon market mysteries. &quot;We tried mysteries with one of our top authors and it didn&#039;t work.&quot; Possibly. 

I&#039;m going to think on this a bit more. Mysteries should be going gangbusters in the Mormon market.

-- Lee Allred</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1) Kent, an observation, not an arguement: those PubTrack numbers are a bit off from the genre market breakdowns I usually heard. Usually Romance is around 50% of the pie with Mystery about 25%. A breakdown like you&#8217;ve quoted would be a rather dramatic shift in the market.  Intriguing.</p>
<p>2) In the mid/late 1990s Bookcraft published a mystery series* by Susan Evans McCloud (of LIKEN TO US FAME for all you old Seminary students :) ). </p>
<p>They were very nicely done, but apparently didn&#8217;t do well. I&#8217;m not sure precisely why, but there were a few strikes against the books.</p>
<p>a) They read like national market mystery books (quality and substance). They had all the expected conventinos of a national market mystery genre book. There were very few if any LDS elements in the story. If I recall the main character, a young woman, was a Mormon, but  that fact was never really played up in the rest of the books. Other than having Bookcraft on the spine, they could have been national market books. Perhaps they weren&#8217;t Mormon enough.</p>
<p>b) Somewhat cross-genre. There was a romance subplot invovling the recurring characters and the book set on the Cornish coast had gothic/ghost story elements. Maybe a bit too much romance for the straight mystery readers and too much mystery for the romance readers.</p>
<p>c) Odd time period/locale. The book was set in Britian just after the Great War. A possbile plus for national market, but possibly a minus for the Mormon market.</p>
<p>It is possible that the limited success of this series may have poisoned the well for future Mormon market mysteries. &#8220;We tried mysteries with one of our top authors and it didn&#8217;t work.&#8221; Possibly. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m going to think on this a bit more. Mysteries should be going gangbusters in the Mormon market.</p>
<p>&#8211; Lee Allred</p>
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		<title>By: S.P. Bailey</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/lds-market-mystery/comment-page-1/#comment-36366</link>
		<dc:creator>S.P. Bailey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 05:39:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2279#comment-36366</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m working on it. Anybody want to read my manuscript? Seriously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m working on it. Anybody want to read my manuscript? Seriously.</p>
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		<title>By: Kent Larsen</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/lds-market-mystery/comment-page-1/#comment-36360</link>
		<dc:creator>Kent Larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 02:39:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2279#comment-36360</guid>
		<description>Th, I see your point, but I do have to observe that the Whitney&#039;s conflate two of the national genres -- Mystery/Detective Fiction, and Espionage/Thriller Fiction.

Together, they would be 43% of the national fiction market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Th, I see your point, but I do have to observe that the Whitney&#8217;s conflate two of the national genres &#8212; Mystery/Detective Fiction, and Espionage/Thriller Fiction.</p>
<p>Together, they would be 43% of the national fiction market.</p>
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