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	<title>Comments on: Irreantum v. 10 no. 2 &#8212; a review in tally</title>
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	<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/irreantum10-2-tally-review/</link>
	<description>Mormon Arts and Culture</description>
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		<title>By: Th.</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/irreantum10-2-tally-review/comment-page-1/#comment-37263</link>
		<dc:creator>Th.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 07:11:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2526#comment-37263</guid>
		<description>.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://thmazing.blogspot.com/2009/07/short-fiction-and-because-i-am-feeling.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Up: review of fiction and nonfiction (as if it were fiction).&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.</p>
<p><a href="http://thmazing.blogspot.com/2009/07/short-fiction-and-because-i-am-feeling.html" rel="nofollow">Up: review of fiction and nonfiction (as if it were fiction).</a></p>
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		<title>By: Th.</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/irreantum10-2-tally-review/comment-page-1/#comment-37262</link>
		<dc:creator>Th.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 06:44:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2526#comment-37262</guid>
		<description>.

I wasn&#039;t super sold on the poetry either, but besides the terrible third line, I thought &quot;Blunt Force Trauma&quot; was good and I loved &quot;I&#039;ll Tell You What the Butterfly Represents.&quot; It&#039;s not of astonishing depth, but it is a lovely-faceted jem of what it is. (imho)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.</p>
<p>I wasn&#8217;t super sold on the poetry either, but besides the terrible third line, I thought &#8220;Blunt Force Trauma&#8221; was good and I loved &#8220;I&#8217;ll Tell You What the Butterfly Represents.&#8221; It&#8217;s not of astonishing depth, but it is a lovely-faceted jem of what it is. (imho)</p>
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		<title>By: Kent Larsen</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/irreantum10-2-tally-review/comment-page-1/#comment-37256</link>
		<dc:creator>Kent Larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 02:52:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2526#comment-37256</guid>
		<description>I have to say (by way of turning the comments to my own interests) that I agree with the criticism of Irreantum&#039;s no-self-publishing policy. The impression I have is that such policies are often used in journals to maintain their integrity. BUT, in those cases there are alternatives. If the staff of the &lt;em&gt;Paris Review&lt;/em&gt; write something, they have a host of other places where they can publish -- &lt;em&gt;Ploughshares&lt;/em&gt;, &lt;em&gt;The Iowa Review&lt;/em&gt;, &lt;em&gt;Granta&lt;/em&gt;, &lt;em&gt;AGNI&lt;/em&gt;, &lt;em&gt;The Missouri Review&lt;/em&gt;, &lt;em&gt;New England Review&lt;/em&gt;, etc.

In the world of Mormon Literature, we don&#039;t have too many options. If you are fortunate, an item rejected by &lt;em&gt;Irreantum&lt;/em&gt; can be published in &lt;em&gt;Dialogue&lt;/em&gt; or &lt;em&gt;BYU Studies&lt;/em&gt; or elsewhere, or even in some non-Mormon-specific journal. But since those journals aren&#039;t specific to Mormon Literature, the odds aren&#039;t that good.

Which brings me to William&#039;s suggestion to Angela in comment #11 that &quot;if the sheer number of worthy entries exceeds the number that can go in to Irreantum the print journal, perhaps some of them could be tossed our way.&quot; I can&#039;t resist comparing this situation to my wife&#039;s field, where scientific journals are classified into &quot;first tier,&quot; &quot;second tier,&quot; &quot;third tier,&quot; etc. Within Mormon Literature, we really only have one journal. (We do have a few websites like AMV and a magazine or perhaps two.) Seems to me that we could improve the situation further by making sure the content finds a place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to say (by way of turning the comments to my own interests) that I agree with the criticism of Irreantum&#8217;s no-self-publishing policy. The impression I have is that such policies are often used in journals to maintain their integrity. BUT, in those cases there are alternatives. If the staff of the <em>Paris Review</em> write something, they have a host of other places where they can publish &#8212; <em>Ploughshares</em>, <em>The Iowa Review</em>, <em>Granta</em>, <em>AGNI</em>, <em>The Missouri Review</em>, <em>New England Review</em>, etc.</p>
<p>In the world of Mormon Literature, we don&#8217;t have too many options. If you are fortunate, an item rejected by <em>Irreantum</em> can be published in <em>Dialogue</em> or <em>BYU Studies</em> or elsewhere, or even in some non-Mormon-specific journal. But since those journals aren&#8217;t specific to Mormon Literature, the odds aren&#8217;t that good.</p>
<p>Which brings me to William&#8217;s suggestion to Angela in comment #11 that &#8220;if the sheer number of worthy entries exceeds the number that can go in to Irreantum the print journal, perhaps some of them could be tossed our way.&#8221; I can&#8217;t resist comparing this situation to my wife&#8217;s field, where scientific journals are classified into &#8220;first tier,&#8221; &#8220;second tier,&#8221; &#8220;third tier,&#8221; etc. Within Mormon Literature, we really only have one journal. (We do have a few websites like AMV and a magazine or perhaps two.) Seems to me that we could improve the situation further by making sure the content finds a place.</p>
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		<title>By: S.P. Bailey</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/irreantum10-2-tally-review/comment-page-1/#comment-37245</link>
		<dc:creator>S.P. Bailey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:27:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2526#comment-37245</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the kind words, Wm. It has always been a pleasure for me to work with the Irreantum folks, and I think they produce an excellent product. Congratulations Scott, Angela, et al.

The non-self-publishing thing is unfortunate. For me, it would be a strong incentive not to get involved on the editorial side. (Not that anybody is asking anyway!)

And don&#039;t be too hard on Bruce Jorgensen. I certainly bristle at simplistic readings of the For the Strength of the Youth pamphlet&#039;s statements regarding violence in media. Post-bristle, I point out that, given our history and scriptures, things aren&#039;t so simple. Then I do a pantomime of Coriantumr smiting off the Head of Shiz.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the kind words, Wm. It has always been a pleasure for me to work with the Irreantum folks, and I think they produce an excellent product. Congratulations Scott, Angela, et al.</p>
<p>The non-self-publishing thing is unfortunate. For me, it would be a strong incentive not to get involved on the editorial side. (Not that anybody is asking anyway!)</p>
<p>And don&#8217;t be too hard on Bruce Jorgensen. I certainly bristle at simplistic readings of the For the Strength of the Youth pamphlet&#8217;s statements regarding violence in media. Post-bristle, I point out that, given our history and scriptures, things aren&#8217;t so simple. Then I do a pantomime of Coriantumr smiting off the Head of Shiz.</p>
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		<title>By: William Morris</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/irreantum10-2-tally-review/comment-page-1/#comment-37238</link>
		<dc:creator>William Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:39:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Absolutely. And that would be worth further exploration in a Mormon context.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely. And that would be worth further exploration in a Mormon context.</p>
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		<title>By: Gerrit</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/irreantum10-2-tally-review/comment-page-1/#comment-37237</link>
		<dc:creator>Gerrit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:13:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2526#comment-37237</guid>
		<description>WM:
I thought it was something like that. Thanks for the clarification. I agree that &quot;just because A contains B doesn’t meant that B in C operates in the exact same way;&quot; however, B *can* operate in the exact same way in C as it does in A. Not that it does all the time, but that the capacity is there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WM:<br />
I thought it was something like that. Thanks for the clarification. I agree that &#8220;just because A contains B doesn’t meant that B in C operates in the exact same way;&#8221; however, B *can* operate in the exact same way in C as it does in A. Not that it does all the time, but that the capacity is there.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Th.</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/irreantum10-2-tally-review/comment-page-1/#comment-37235</link>
		<dc:creator>Th.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:53:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2526#comment-37235</guid>
		<description>.

Thanks, Wm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.</p>
<p>Thanks, Wm.</p>
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		<title>By: William Morris</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/irreantum10-2-tally-review/comment-page-1/#comment-37234</link>
		<dc:creator>William Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:39:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2526#comment-37234</guid>
		<description>Voila! Therics link now works.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Voila! Therics link now works.</p>
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		<title>By: William Morris</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/irreantum10-2-tally-review/comment-page-1/#comment-37233</link>
		<dc:creator>William Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2526#comment-37233</guid>
		<description>Gerrit:

As a good postmodernist I read anything that can be construed as having a narrative or even simply making an attempt at meaning as literature (or at least as worthy of semiotic interpretation and situation). The sentence you quote is less a blanket statement on the value of scripture as literature and more a particular response to what Jorgensen is attempting to do. I find great literary value in scripture. However, I don&#039;t expect the fact that there is scripture that has literary value to mean that all Mormons (esp. those without the literary training ) need to transplant the level of gratuitousness found in scripture in to other forms of narrative discourse -- especially literary discourse. 

Or in other words:  just because A contains B doesn&#039;t meant that B in C operates in the exact same way and so is just as palatable as B in A.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gerrit:</p>
<p>As a good postmodernist I read anything that can be construed as having a narrative or even simply making an attempt at meaning as literature (or at least as worthy of semiotic interpretation and situation). The sentence you quote is less a blanket statement on the value of scripture as literature and more a particular response to what Jorgensen is attempting to do. I find great literary value in scripture. However, I don&#8217;t expect the fact that there is scripture that has literary value to mean that all Mormons (esp. those without the literary training ) need to transplant the level of gratuitousness found in scripture in to other forms of narrative discourse &#8212; especially literary discourse. </p>
<p>Or in other words:  just because A contains B doesn&#8217;t meant that B in C operates in the exact same way and so is just as palatable as B in A.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Langford</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/irreantum10-2-tally-review/comment-page-1/#comment-37232</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Langford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:34:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2526#comment-37232</guid>
		<description>Theric,

Your link to &quot;Here&#039;s me on Jorgensen&quot; doesn&#039;t go anywhere, for me at least. (Which is rather different from saying either that (a) your comments on Jorgensen don&#039;t go anywhere, or (b) Jorgensen doesn&#039;t go anywhere - neither of which I&#039;m in a position to judge at this point...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Theric,</p>
<p>Your link to &#8220;Here&#8217;s me on Jorgensen&#8221; doesn&#8217;t go anywhere, for me at least. (Which is rather different from saying either that (a) your comments on Jorgensen don&#8217;t go anywhere, or (b) Jorgensen doesn&#8217;t go anywhere &#8211; neither of which I&#8217;m in a position to judge at this point&#8230;)</p>
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