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	<title>Comments on: Glen Hansard on imagining darkness</title>
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	<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/glen-hansard-imagining-darkness/</link>
	<description>Mormon Arts and Culture</description>
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		<title>By: Adam K. K. Figueira</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/glen-hansard-imagining-darkness/comment-page-1/#comment-38684</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam K. K. Figueira</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:59:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=3146#comment-38684</guid>
		<description>Valeriano Ugolini&#039;s &lt;i&gt;Theophany: Visible Manifestation of God&lt;/i&gt;, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&amp;locale=0&amp;sourceId=5979dcac73a8d010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&amp;vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;viewable near the bottom of this page&lt;/a&gt;, was among the most moving pieces to me from the Church&#039;s seventh international art festival a few years back.

I wouldn&#039;t call it without darkness, but what do you think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Valeriano Ugolini&#8217;s <i>Theophany: Visible Manifestation of God</i>, <a href="http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&amp;locale=0&amp;sourceId=5979dcac73a8d010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&amp;vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD" rel="nofollow">viewable near the bottom of this page</a>, was among the most moving pieces to me from the Church&#8217;s seventh international art festival a few years back.</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t call it without darkness, but what do you think?</p>
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		<title>By: Moriah Jovan</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/glen-hansard-imagining-darkness/comment-page-1/#comment-38683</link>
		<dc:creator>Moriah Jovan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:10:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=3146#comment-38683</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;For example. No darkness. Pure light.

(I will think of some real examples … busy this morning …)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You are evil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>For example. No darkness. Pure light.</p>
<p>(I will think of some real examples … busy this morning …)</p></blockquote>
<p>You are evil.</p>
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		<title>By: S.P. Bailey</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/glen-hansard-imagining-darkness/comment-page-1/#comment-38682</link>
		<dc:creator>S.P. Bailey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:40:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=3146#comment-38682</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.animalshirts.net/kittenshirts/catshirt-hello.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;For example&lt;/a&gt;. No darkness. Pure light.

(I will think of some real examples ... busy this morning ...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.animalshirts.net/kittenshirts/catshirt-hello.htm" rel="nofollow">For example</a>. No darkness. Pure light.</p>
<p>(I will think of some real examples &#8230; busy this morning &#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa Torcasso Downing</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/glen-hansard-imagining-darkness/comment-page-1/#comment-38681</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa Torcasso Downing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=3146#comment-38681</guid>
		<description>Devotional works that don&#039;t need darkness to work.... Religious, classical music and architecture which are &quot;pure light&quot;... Can you give me specifics so I can understand your meaning better?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Devotional works that don&#8217;t need darkness to work&#8230;. Religious, classical music and architecture which are &#8220;pure light&#8221;&#8230; Can you give me specifics so I can understand your meaning better?</p>
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		<title>By: S.P. Bailey</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/glen-hansard-imagining-darkness/comment-page-1/#comment-38678</link>
		<dc:creator>S.P. Bailey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 22:38:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=3146#comment-38678</guid>
		<description>I love some art that uses darkness to great effect. Maybe the darkness is (thematically speaking) a character&#039;s lost and fallen state from which she is redeemed. Or the darkness reads as &quot;the way of the world&quot; or &quot;contemporary culture,&quot; etc., etc. And a character&#039;s virtue, standing in stark contrast to her dark surroundings, is a commentary on the darkness. 

On the other hand, it may be substantially harder to succeed with work that lacks a certain amount of darkness. Mormons are subjected to a lot of stuff that is plenty bright and cheerful but that leaves me completely flat and uninspired. And yet I can think of devotional works that don&#039;t need darkness to work. (The world is dark enough. These works are pure light.) I am mainly thinking of religious classical music and architecture, though. 

I take it on a work-by-work basis. I suppose I ask questions like what effect did this work make of its darkness? Did it earn its darkness or lack thereof? What was the ultimate effect?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love some art that uses darkness to great effect. Maybe the darkness is (thematically speaking) a character&#8217;s lost and fallen state from which she is redeemed. Or the darkness reads as &#8220;the way of the world&#8221; or &#8220;contemporary culture,&#8221; etc., etc. And a character&#8217;s virtue, standing in stark contrast to her dark surroundings, is a commentary on the darkness. </p>
<p>On the other hand, it may be substantially harder to succeed with work that lacks a certain amount of darkness. Mormons are subjected to a lot of stuff that is plenty bright and cheerful but that leaves me completely flat and uninspired. And yet I can think of devotional works that don&#8217;t need darkness to work. (The world is dark enough. These works are pure light.) I am mainly thinking of religious classical music and architecture, though. </p>
<p>I take it on a work-by-work basis. I suppose I ask questions like what effect did this work make of its darkness? Did it earn its darkness or lack thereof? What was the ultimate effect?</p>
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		<title>By: Wm Morris</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/glen-hansard-imagining-darkness/comment-page-1/#comment-38677</link>
		<dc:creator>Wm Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:33:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=3146#comment-38677</guid>
		<description>Adam:

Absolutely there is -- and that&#039;s why I think this needs further discussion and thought (and experimentation) and why reading the interview with Glen Hansard unspooled some things for me.

I also think that it&#039;s easy to go for the dramatic, grotesque and/or violent depictions of imperfection -- it&#039;s the finer gradations that I find more interesting and fruitful. 

In addition, I wonder if what matters about the via negativa is less the depiction of evil and more God&#039;s response to that. That brings to mind things like England&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.smpt.org/docs/england_element1-1.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Weeping God of Mormonism&lt;/a&gt; and that Joseph Smith quote about the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith,_Jr.#Revelation&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;deepest abyss&lt;/a&gt; (8th quote or so in that section). And is also why I liked that Hansard brings in the idea of melancholy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam:</p>
<p>Absolutely there is &#8212; and that&#8217;s why I think this needs further discussion and thought (and experimentation) and why reading the interview with Glen Hansard unspooled some things for me.</p>
<p>I also think that it&#8217;s easy to go for the dramatic, grotesque and/or violent depictions of imperfection &#8212; it&#8217;s the finer gradations that I find more interesting and fruitful. </p>
<p>In addition, I wonder if what matters about the via negativa is less the depiction of evil and more God&#8217;s response to that. That brings to mind things like England&#8217;s <a href="http://www.smpt.org/docs/england_element1-1.html" rel="nofollow">The Weeping God of Mormonism</a> and that Joseph Smith quote about the <a href="http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith,_Jr.#Revelation" rel="nofollow">deepest abyss</a> (8th quote or so in that section). And is also why I liked that Hansard brings in the idea of melancholy.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam K. K. Figueira</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/glen-hansard-imagining-darkness/comment-page-1/#comment-38676</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam K. K. Figueira</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:20:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=3146#comment-38676</guid>
		<description>Sorry, that should be &quot;...in terms of what can&#039;t be said about Him...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, that should be &#8220;&#8230;in terms of what can&#8217;t be said about Him&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Adam K. K. Figueira</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/glen-hansard-imagining-darkness/comment-page-1/#comment-38675</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam K. K. Figueira</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:19:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=3146#comment-38675</guid>
		<description>William, 

Just for my clarification, isn&#039;t there a difference between via negativa and the depiction/description of evil? As I understand it, the first attempts to describe God in terms of can&#039;t be said about Him - by which I mean things like God&#039;s being unchanging, limitless, beyond man&#039;s comprehension, etc. But I would think that art based on this approach doesn&#039;t require the depiction of polar opposites to God. I wouldn&#039;t think sinful darkness is essential, only the ignorant darkness caused by man&#039;s imperfection. But I can see how portrayals of evil could be included in such a method.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>William, </p>
<p>Just for my clarification, isn&#8217;t there a difference between via negativa and the depiction/description of evil? As I understand it, the first attempts to describe God in terms of can&#8217;t be said about Him &#8211; by which I mean things like God&#8217;s being unchanging, limitless, beyond man&#8217;s comprehension, etc. But I would think that art based on this approach doesn&#8217;t require the depiction of polar opposites to God. I wouldn&#8217;t think sinful darkness is essential, only the ignorant darkness caused by man&#8217;s imperfection. But I can see how portrayals of evil could be included in such a method.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam K. K. Figueira</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/glen-hansard-imagining-darkness/comment-page-1/#comment-38674</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam K. K. Figueira</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:10:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=3146#comment-38674</guid>
		<description>Lisa, 

This is the reason I haven&#039;t seen &lt;i&gt;The Dark Knight&lt;/i&gt;. So many people I respect say that it&#039;s largely about redemption, and has its consequent beauty, but I don&#039;t know how safely I can plunge myself down that hole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lisa, </p>
<p>This is the reason I haven&#8217;t seen <i>The Dark Knight</i>. So many people I respect say that it&#8217;s largely about redemption, and has its consequent beauty, but I don&#8217;t know how safely I can plunge myself down that hole.</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa Torcasso Downing</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/glen-hansard-imagining-darkness/comment-page-1/#comment-38673</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa Torcasso Downing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:06:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=3146#comment-38673</guid>
		<description>The Road. I read it long ago, doubt I&#039;ll go see it. Once w. that tale was enough. My kids (18 and 20) are reading it because they want to ingest it before the film. So its still visible at my house. My husband keeps asking me if it is a good book. I stare at him blankly. Its that word &quot;good&quot; that throws me. I want to say its well crafted, but I have this sense that its cruel to the reader. I don&#039;t know what to make of that feeling. You seem to suggest that it is both dark and life-affirming. I wouldn&#039;t have put those two together, but I guess, the argument could be made.I just didn&#039;t really take much hope in the ending. Dark art. Art that is *that* dark... Its probably the one thing I can&#039;t ever imagine myself aspiring to write.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Road. I read it long ago, doubt I&#8217;ll go see it. Once w. that tale was enough. My kids (18 and 20) are reading it because they want to ingest it before the film. So its still visible at my house. My husband keeps asking me if it is a good book. I stare at him blankly. Its that word &#8220;good&#8221; that throws me. I want to say its well crafted, but I have this sense that its cruel to the reader. I don&#8217;t know what to make of that feeling. You seem to suggest that it is both dark and life-affirming. I wouldn&#8217;t have put those two together, but I guess, the argument could be made.I just didn&#8217;t really take much hope in the ending. Dark art. Art that is *that* dark&#8230; Its probably the one thing I can&#8217;t ever imagine myself aspiring to write.</p>
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