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	<title>Comments on: Gadianton the Nobler, Reflecting on Changes in the Book of Mormon</title>
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	<description>Mormon Arts and Culture</description>
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		<title>By: Wm Morris</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/gadianton-the-nobler/comment-page-1/#comment-34990</link>
		<dc:creator>Wm Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 03:27:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I should also add that it&#039;s great to see Harlow getting his feet wet with this whole blogging thing. I look forward to the future posts (although no pressure on timing -- I have at least three blog posts series that I have yet to complete).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should also add that it&#8217;s great to see Harlow getting his feet wet with this whole blogging thing. I look forward to the future posts (although no pressure on timing &#8212; I have at least three blog posts series that I have yet to complete).</p>
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		<title>By: Wm Morris</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/gadianton-the-nobler/comment-page-1/#comment-34987</link>
		<dc:creator>Wm Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 05:42:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>For those looking for a free e-text reader&#039;s edition of the Book of Mormon &lt;a href=&quot;http://riverglenpress.net/cumorah.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ben Crowder has created one&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those looking for a free e-text reader&#8217;s edition of the Book of Mormon <a href="http://riverglenpress.net/cumorah.php" rel="nofollow">Ben Crowder has created one</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Th.</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/gadianton-the-nobler/comment-page-1/#comment-34986</link>
		<dc:creator>Th.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 04:50:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>.

&lt;blockquote&gt;here are a lot of Bible editions editions that superscript the verse numbers within a paragraph so they’re a lot less obtrusive.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This is part of what I like about my Oxford edition of the Bible.

&lt;blockquote&gt;ou don’t format it as poetry, so a lot of people don’t realize how much of the Hebrew and Christian Bibles are poetry&lt;/blockquote&gt;

And this is another part of what I like.

Like you, I think reading multiple translations is helpful in broadening understanding. I&#039;m fine with having a standard text (the KJV), but I do not like how some people treat other translations as unclean. Given the frequency with which other translations are quoted in General Conference, I think this is clearly an erroneous stance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.</p>
<blockquote><p>here are a lot of Bible editions editions that superscript the verse numbers within a paragraph so they’re a lot less obtrusive.</p></blockquote>
<p>This is part of what I like about my Oxford edition of the Bible.</p>
<blockquote><p>ou don’t format it as poetry, so a lot of people don’t realize how much of the Hebrew and Christian Bibles are poetry</p></blockquote>
<p>And this is another part of what I like.</p>
<p>Like you, I think reading multiple translations is helpful in broadening understanding. I&#8217;m fine with having a standard text (the KJV), but I do not like how some people treat other translations as unclean. Given the frequency with which other translations are quoted in General Conference, I think this is clearly an erroneous stance.</p>
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		<title>By: Harlow Clark</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/gadianton-the-nobler/comment-page-1/#comment-34985</link>
		<dc:creator>Harlow Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 01:20:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks for your question, Jonathan. I&#039;ll talk more about what else I&#039;m looking at in parts 2 and 3 of the overiew, which I&#039;ll probably post on Monday. I&#039;ve noticed a lot of poetry in the Book of Mormon besides the chiastic passages. The changes also suggest to me that Joseph wanted to revise the translation, but he felt such urgency to get it into print that he waited until the 2nd and 3rd editions. Also, I&#039;ve learned from studying his grammatical errors that the Book of Mormon is a highly crafted literary work. The errors interrupt the flow of the work, but when they&#039;re not there you don&#039;t notice how smoothly it flows. I&#039;m also going to be talking about modernizations. Around 1975 I was walking through the BYU Bookstore and noticed a Book of Mormon published by Harcourt Brace and Jovanovich. It has the preface to the RLDS 1966 modernization so I think it&#039;s a reprint. It&#039;s easier to read in some ways, but at some cost to the rhythm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your question, Jonathan. I&#8217;ll talk more about what else I&#8217;m looking at in parts 2 and 3 of the overiew, which I&#8217;ll probably post on Monday. I&#8217;ve noticed a lot of poetry in the Book of Mormon besides the chiastic passages. The changes also suggest to me that Joseph wanted to revise the translation, but he felt such urgency to get it into print that he waited until the 2nd and 3rd editions. Also, I&#8217;ve learned from studying his grammatical errors that the Book of Mormon is a highly crafted literary work. The errors interrupt the flow of the work, but when they&#8217;re not there you don&#8217;t notice how smoothly it flows. I&#8217;m also going to be talking about modernizations. Around 1975 I was walking through the BYU Bookstore and noticed a Book of Mormon published by Harcourt Brace and Jovanovich. It has the preface to the RLDS 1966 modernization so I think it&#8217;s a reprint. It&#8217;s easier to read in some ways, but at some cost to the rhythm.</p>
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		<title>By: Harlow Clark</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/gadianton-the-nobler/comment-page-1/#comment-34984</link>
		<dc:creator>Harlow Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 01:06:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Th. and Stephen, thanks for your comments about versification. Royal Skousen says in Analysis of Textual Variants in the Book of Mormon, Part One, that the book has been divided into chapters and verses 4 times, &quot;the 1852 LDS system, followed by the 1874 RLDS edition; the 1879 LDS system, followed by all subsequent LDS editions; the 1892, and the 1908 RLDS system, followed by all subsequent RLDS editions&quot; (p. 12). Some, maybe most, of the smaller churches use editions published by the larger churches. My copy of RLDS 1955 has a rubber stamp inside the cover that says CHURCH OF CHRIST / (TEMPLE LOT) / 10068 CLAIRMONT DR. / ST. LOUIS 21 MO.

We split texts into verses for ease of reference and study. Once you versify a text it&#039;s a lot easier for people with different editions or copies to find the same passage. Versification can certainly change the way we read a text and think about it, but I think our problem of reading verses as discrete units is partly a typographical problem. There are a lot of Bible editions editions that superscript the verse numbers within a paragraph so they&#039;re a lot less obtrusive. 

Another problem is that the Hebrew Bible is very long and if you print it in two columns to save paper you don&#039;t format it as poetry, so a lot of people don&#039;t realize how much of the Hebrew and Christian Bibles are poetry. Willis Barnstone says Yeshua as recorded in the Gospel of Mattai is one of the great world poets.

I&#039;ve been reading the Jewish Publication Society translation of The Torah, and the versification looks pretty much the same, so it predates Christianity. Some of the footnotes in Willis Barnstone&#039;s translation The New Covenant, Part 1, The Gospels and Apocalypse suggest that the verses indicate line breaks in the manuscripts they were versifying from.

Your comment about the Maori reading the Book of Mormon as a series of stories may mean that they don&#039;t have an exegetical tradition like the western exegetical tradition. I&#039;ll have a lot to say about the assumptions we make when we interpret texts in future postings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Th. and Stephen, thanks for your comments about versification. Royal Skousen says in Analysis of Textual Variants in the Book of Mormon, Part One, that the book has been divided into chapters and verses 4 times, &#8220;the 1852 LDS system, followed by the 1874 RLDS edition; the 1879 LDS system, followed by all subsequent LDS editions; the 1892, and the 1908 RLDS system, followed by all subsequent RLDS editions&#8221; (p. 12). Some, maybe most, of the smaller churches use editions published by the larger churches. My copy of RLDS 1955 has a rubber stamp inside the cover that says CHURCH OF CHRIST / (TEMPLE LOT) / 10068 CLAIRMONT DR. / ST. LOUIS 21 MO.</p>
<p>We split texts into verses for ease of reference and study. Once you versify a text it&#8217;s a lot easier for people with different editions or copies to find the same passage. Versification can certainly change the way we read a text and think about it, but I think our problem of reading verses as discrete units is partly a typographical problem. There are a lot of Bible editions editions that superscript the verse numbers within a paragraph so they&#8217;re a lot less obtrusive. </p>
<p>Another problem is that the Hebrew Bible is very long and if you print it in two columns to save paper you don&#8217;t format it as poetry, so a lot of people don&#8217;t realize how much of the Hebrew and Christian Bibles are poetry. Willis Barnstone says Yeshua as recorded in the Gospel of Mattai is one of the great world poets.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been reading the Jewish Publication Society translation of The Torah, and the versification looks pretty much the same, so it predates Christianity. Some of the footnotes in Willis Barnstone&#8217;s translation The New Covenant, Part 1, The Gospels and Apocalypse suggest that the verses indicate line breaks in the manuscripts they were versifying from.</p>
<p>Your comment about the Maori reading the Book of Mormon as a series of stories may mean that they don&#8217;t have an exegetical tradition like the western exegetical tradition. I&#8217;ll have a lot to say about the assumptions we make when we interpret texts in future postings.</p>
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		<title>By: Harlow Clark</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/gadianton-the-nobler/comment-page-1/#comment-34982</link>
		<dc:creator>Harlow Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 00:31:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=1439#comment-34982</guid>
		<description>Th. Thanks for your comments. One way to make a scripture new is to read in a foreign language. I have enough high school German and French to read Le Livre de Mormon and Das Buch Mormon. More than once I&#039;ve found myself saying, &quot;Is that really what the English says?&quot; I came across someone&#039;s missionary copy of the Luthertext des Neue Testament in a used bookstore about 25 years ago and bought it because Joseph Smith said Luther&#039;s was the best translation he knew. Before I read it (twice) I don&#039;t think I had read the NT through since Seminary, but I could recognize a lot of the phrasing and rhythms of the KJV, so I suspect King James&#039;s scholars knew the Luthertext.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Th. Thanks for your comments. One way to make a scripture new is to read in a foreign language. I have enough high school German and French to read Le Livre de Mormon and Das Buch Mormon. More than once I&#8217;ve found myself saying, &#8220;Is that really what the English says?&#8221; I came across someone&#8217;s missionary copy of the Luthertext des Neue Testament in a used bookstore about 25 years ago and bought it because Joseph Smith said Luther&#8217;s was the best translation he knew. Before I read it (twice) I don&#8217;t think I had read the NT through since Seminary, but I could recognize a lot of the phrasing and rhythms of the KJV, so I suspect King James&#8217;s scholars knew the Luthertext.</p>
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		<title>By: Th.</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/gadianton-the-nobler/comment-page-1/#comment-34980</link>
		<dc:creator>Th.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 23:48:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=1439#comment-34980</guid>
		<description>.

In the FARMS mag several years back (2000?) they ran an article about the Maori. The gist was that the Maori read the BofM as a series of stories rather than a sequence of doctrinal verses and thus their take on it is quite different than the average Americans. 

So I read through the Book of Mormon as quickly as I could, to try and gain a sense of its scope as story, as epic, et cetera. And it did provide a different sort of experience that has colored the way I&#039;ve talked about the Book ever since.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.</p>
<p>In the FARMS mag several years back (2000?) they ran an article about the Maori. The gist was that the Maori read the BofM as a series of stories rather than a sequence of doctrinal verses and thus their take on it is quite different than the average Americans. </p>
<p>So I read through the Book of Mormon as quickly as I could, to try and gain a sense of its scope as story, as epic, et cetera. And it did provide a different sort of experience that has colored the way I&#8217;ve talked about the Book ever since.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Langford</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/gadianton-the-nobler/comment-page-1/#comment-34978</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Langford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 17:09:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Interesting insight. Aside from seeing more traces of oral culture, what are some of the other differences you see in looking at the Book of Mormon this way?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting insight. Aside from seeing more traces of oral culture, what are some of the other differences you see in looking at the Book of Mormon this way?</p>
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		<title>By: Th.</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/gadianton-the-nobler/comment-page-1/#comment-34977</link>
		<dc:creator>Th.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 16:57:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=1439#comment-34977</guid>
		<description>.

One of the projects on my plate is a short-story collection that includes the KJV Esther. And you can bet I&#039;ll be throwing out the verses and forming some more natural paragraphs.

Another thing about verses is how many readers define their reading by verse, whether in personal study or in a class. Taking part of a sentence alone in its own increases the likelihood of misinterpretation or no interpretation at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.</p>
<p>One of the projects on my plate is a short-story collection that includes the KJV Esther. And you can bet I&#8217;ll be throwing out the verses and forming some more natural paragraphs.</p>
<p>Another thing about verses is how many readers define their reading by verse, whether in personal study or in a class. Taking part of a sentence alone in its own increases the likelihood of misinterpretation or no interpretation at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/gadianton-the-nobler/comment-page-1/#comment-34976</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 16:40:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I noticed the same thing when I read the Tyndale version of the New Testament. The King James Version was largely based on the Tyndale translation, but the Tyndale version reads much more like a narrative. The minor changes to the text and the addition of verse segmentation makes the KJV feel much less natural.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I noticed the same thing when I read the Tyndale version of the New Testament. The King James Version was largely based on the Tyndale translation, but the Tyndale version reads much more like a narrative. The minor changes to the text and the addition of verse segmentation makes the KJV feel much less natural.</p>
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