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	<title>Comments on: Gadianton the Nobler, Reflections on Changes in the Book of Mormon</title>
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	<description>Mormon Arts and Culture</description>
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		<title>By: Harlow</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/gadianton-the-nobler-variants/comment-page-1/#comment-35283</link>
		<dc:creator>Harlow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 05:49:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=1609#comment-35283</guid>
		<description>I wish it was planning and waiting instead of fumble fingers and serendipity (what you get when you combine nerve gas and hair gel). When I saw that I had typed 1086 I thought of that wonderful book about English history as heard in locker rooms and lunch lines and hallways and walking down the streets, _1066 and All That_, and that reminded me of the ad about the Frenchified Vikings in Greece, not Olive Oyl. (I fights to the finich when I eats my spinach, I&#039;m pie-pie the sailorman)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish it was planning and waiting instead of fumble fingers and serendipity (what you get when you combine nerve gas and hair gel). When I saw that I had typed 1086 I thought of that wonderful book about English history as heard in locker rooms and lunch lines and hallways and walking down the streets, _1066 and All That_, and that reminded me of the ad about the Frenchified Vikings in Greece, not Olive Oyl. (I fights to the finich when I eats my spinach, I&#8217;m pie-pie the sailorman)</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/gadianton-the-nobler-variants/comment-page-1/#comment-35261</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 06:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=1609#comment-35261</guid>
		<description>Yes, patience in Joke telling is a Cardinal virtue. Comic timing is everything.  As for the Normans, I once had a History professor who referred to the Normans as Frenchified Vikings, which at the time I thought was really odd. Why would anyone want to to slice up a bunch of Vikings into  thin strips and deep-fry  them in Greece?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, patience in Joke telling is a Cardinal virtue. Comic timing is everything.  As for the Normans, I once had a History professor who referred to the Normans as Frenchified Vikings, which at the time I thought was really odd. Why would anyone want to to slice up a bunch of Vikings into  thin strips and deep-fry  them in Greece?</p>
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		<title>By: Patricia Karamesines</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/gadianton-the-nobler-variants/comment-page-1/#comment-35253</link>
		<dc:creator>Patricia Karamesines</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:06:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=1609#comment-35253</guid>
		<description>Maybe you can&#039;t take credit for originating the joke, Harlow, but you certainly deserve kudos for waiting (and planning?) all those years for the perfect chance to work it in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe you can&#8217;t take credit for originating the joke, Harlow, but you certainly deserve kudos for waiting (and planning?) all those years for the perfect chance to work it in.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Harlow</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/gadianton-the-nobler-variants/comment-page-1/#comment-35252</link>
		<dc:creator>Harlow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 21:02:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=1609#comment-35252</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Theric. Unfortunately I can&#039;t take credit for it. I read it years ago in the Daily Universe, I think in an ad for Semester Abroad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Theric. Unfortunately I can&#8217;t take credit for it. I read it years ago in the Daily Universe, I think in an ad for Semester Abroad.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Th.</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/gadianton-the-nobler-variants/comment-page-1/#comment-35251</link>
		<dc:creator>Th.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 20:43:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=1609#comment-35251</guid>
		<description>.

Harlow? That is an excellent joke, sir.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.</p>
<p>Harlow? That is an excellent joke, sir.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Harlow</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/gadianton-the-nobler-variants/comment-page-1/#comment-35249</link>
		<dc:creator>Harlow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 20:19:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>And my proofreader&#039;s eye doesn&#039;t always catch every mistake. The publication year should have been 1986, not 20 years after the French stepped off their ships and said, &quot;What do you know about the Normans? Would you like to know more?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And my proofreader&#8217;s eye doesn&#8217;t always catch every mistake. The publication year should have been 1986, not 20 years after the French stepped off their ships and said, &#8220;What do you know about the Normans? Would you like to know more?&#8221;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Harlow</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/gadianton-the-nobler-variants/comment-page-1/#comment-35248</link>
		<dc:creator>Harlow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 20:15:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=1609#comment-35248</guid>
		<description>I went through the University of Washington&#039;s MFA program with a Japanese woman named Norie Suzuki (anyone heard of her? or of Pamela Seltzer?). Norie wrote a story called &quot;Crossmind Puzzle&quot; and when we discussed it in Lois Hudson&#039;s workshop several of us said that the crossword puzzle in the story didn&#039;t work. Norie said that it didn&#039;t matter, it&#039;s just a prop. We replied that when you include a puzzle in a story people are going to try and work the puzzle.

Lois called me into her office one day and told me about a student she had had whose writing was allusive and subtle and she told the student, &quot;I want you to take this story and rewrite it so it&#039;s so obvious it makes you want to puke. Then I want you to rewrite the story again halfway between the two versions.&quot; The student came back with the new version and Lois asked if it had been hard to do. &quot;Yes.&quot; &quot;Was it worth doing?&quot; &quot;Yes.&quot; 

She said, &quot;I&#039;m going to give you the same  assignment.&quot;

About a dozen years later Benson Parkinson told me the same thing. I was writing an appreciation of Cathy Wilson&#039;s poetry for Irreantum 2:1, Spring 2000, and Benson told me the piece I was writing was nearly as subtle and compact as the poetry I was writing about, which defeats the purpose of writing an appreciation designed to invite people into a group of poems to browse around rather than puzzling over every syllable and iamb.

I rewrote the piece fairly quickly and it is much better, but I still prefer being a little playful. 

Last summer I came across Tom Hollander&#039;s narration of A Clockwork Orange. I have avoided reading it because all I have is the censored (or mutilated) American orange paperback. 30-odd years ago when I was building up a collection of the original run of Short Story International my brother asked me to look out for one number which had a story by Anthony Burgess. &quot;It&#039;s a new ending for A Clockwork Orange. Actually, it&#039;s the original ending that was left out of the American edition.&quot; 

I found that number and sent it off to him in Seattle so I still don&#039;t have the original ending, but I figured I&#039;d listen to Hollander&#039;s reading then make my way over to the BYU library some day and search through Short Story International for the ending. Well, the recording starts with an essay called &quot;A Clockwork Orange Resucked,&quot; wherein Burgess explains why the American edition was published without its last chapter, and why this new edition includes it.

He wrote the novel in 3 sections of 7 chapters each, or 21 chapters, but the American publisher didn&#039;t like the 21st chapter because Alex grows up and we Americans prefer our dystopias to remain dystopic. We aren&#039;t always comfortable with the idea that the world may not stay as bad as it is now, that people may change and grow. 

&quot;21 is the symbol of human maturity, or used to be, since at 21 you got the vote and assumed adult responsibility. Whatever its symbology, the number 21 was the number I started out with. Novelists of my stamp are interested in what is called arithmology, meaning that number has to mean something in human terms when they handle it.&quot; (A Clockwork Orange, New York: W.W. Norton &amp; Co. 1086, p. vi)

I have always been interested in arithmology, numbers or names in my work always mean something in human terms, which may be why it is still difficult for me to just be very plain--I always want to include more that I lay out, but I&#039;m not trying to be difficult. I&#039;m just playful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I went through the University of Washington&#8217;s MFA program with a Japanese woman named Norie Suzuki (anyone heard of her? or of Pamela Seltzer?). Norie wrote a story called &#8220;Crossmind Puzzle&#8221; and when we discussed it in Lois Hudson&#8217;s workshop several of us said that the crossword puzzle in the story didn&#8217;t work. Norie said that it didn&#8217;t matter, it&#8217;s just a prop. We replied that when you include a puzzle in a story people are going to try and work the puzzle.</p>
<p>Lois called me into her office one day and told me about a student she had had whose writing was allusive and subtle and she told the student, &#8220;I want you to take this story and rewrite it so it&#8217;s so obvious it makes you want to puke. Then I want you to rewrite the story again halfway between the two versions.&#8221; The student came back with the new version and Lois asked if it had been hard to do. &#8220;Yes.&#8221; &#8220;Was it worth doing?&#8221; &#8220;Yes.&#8221; </p>
<p>She said, &#8220;I&#8217;m going to give you the same  assignment.&#8221;</p>
<p>About a dozen years later Benson Parkinson told me the same thing. I was writing an appreciation of Cathy Wilson&#8217;s poetry for Irreantum 2:1, Spring 2000, and Benson told me the piece I was writing was nearly as subtle and compact as the poetry I was writing about, which defeats the purpose of writing an appreciation designed to invite people into a group of poems to browse around rather than puzzling over every syllable and iamb.</p>
<p>I rewrote the piece fairly quickly and it is much better, but I still prefer being a little playful. </p>
<p>Last summer I came across Tom Hollander&#8217;s narration of A Clockwork Orange. I have avoided reading it because all I have is the censored (or mutilated) American orange paperback. 30-odd years ago when I was building up a collection of the original run of Short Story International my brother asked me to look out for one number which had a story by Anthony Burgess. &#8220;It&#8217;s a new ending for A Clockwork Orange. Actually, it&#8217;s the original ending that was left out of the American edition.&#8221; </p>
<p>I found that number and sent it off to him in Seattle so I still don&#8217;t have the original ending, but I figured I&#8217;d listen to Hollander&#8217;s reading then make my way over to the BYU library some day and search through Short Story International for the ending. Well, the recording starts with an essay called &#8220;A Clockwork Orange Resucked,&#8221; wherein Burgess explains why the American edition was published without its last chapter, and why this new edition includes it.</p>
<p>He wrote the novel in 3 sections of 7 chapters each, or 21 chapters, but the American publisher didn&#8217;t like the 21st chapter because Alex grows up and we Americans prefer our dystopias to remain dystopic. We aren&#8217;t always comfortable with the idea that the world may not stay as bad as it is now, that people may change and grow. </p>
<p>&#8220;21 is the symbol of human maturity, or used to be, since at 21 you got the vote and assumed adult responsibility. Whatever its symbology, the number 21 was the number I started out with. Novelists of my stamp are interested in what is called arithmology, meaning that number has to mean something in human terms when they handle it.&#8221; (A Clockwork Orange, New York: W.W. Norton &amp; Co. 1086, p. vi)</p>
<p>I have always been interested in arithmology, numbers or names in my work always mean something in human terms, which may be why it is still difficult for me to just be very plain&#8211;I always want to include more that I lay out, but I&#8217;m not trying to be difficult. I&#8217;m just playful.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Th.</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/gadianton-the-nobler-variants/comment-page-1/#comment-35247</link>
		<dc:creator>Th.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=1609#comment-35247</guid>
		<description>.

Ah. Now it all makes sense!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.</p>
<p>Ah. Now it all makes sense!</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/gadianton-the-nobler-variants/comment-page-1/#comment-35246</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:33:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=1609#comment-35246</guid>
		<description>In my facsimile first edition, Helaman 3:23 at page 414 reads, &quot;... the secret combinations which Gadianton the nobler had established ...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my facsimile first edition, Helaman 3:23 at page 414 reads, &#8220;&#8230; the secret combinations which Gadianton the nobler had established &#8230;&#8221;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Th.</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/gadianton-the-nobler-variants/comment-page-1/#comment-35243</link>
		<dc:creator>Th.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 16:06:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=1609#comment-35243</guid>
		<description>.

Um... what&#039;s your favorite error?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.</p>
<p>Um&#8230; what&#8217;s your favorite error?</p>
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