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	<title>Comments on: Damage Control (and 15 other responses to Elna Baker)</title>
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	<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/elna-baker-slash-damage-control/</link>
	<description>Mormon Arts and Culture</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 01:26:20 -0400</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Moriah Jovan</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/elna-baker-slash-damage-control/comment-page-1/#comment-39300</link>
		<dc:creator>Moriah Jovan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 04:03:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2986#comment-39300</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;she no longer believes that after she dies, she can become a God and create world. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

If I didn&#039;t believe that, I wouldn&#039;t bother with the church at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>she no longer believes that after she dies, she can become a God and create world. </p></blockquote>
<p>If I didn&#8217;t believe that, I wouldn&#8217;t bother with the church at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Th.</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/elna-baker-slash-damage-control/comment-page-1/#comment-39299</link>
		<dc:creator>Th.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 03:56:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2986#comment-39299</guid>
		<description>.

Another one I found interesting but decided not to write about or ask her about is how she clearly has decided that masturbation is for her yet it&#039;s not something she&#039;s ready to make jokes about yet. I imagine it&#039;s hit her standup by now, but if not, it&#039;s weighing on her enough, she&#039;ll have to expunge it sometime.

The creation thing --- she doesn&#039;t represent that aspect of LDS cosmology very well at any point. So I wonder too about her relationship to that doctrine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.</p>
<p>Another one I found interesting but decided not to write about or ask her about is how she clearly has decided that masturbation is for her yet it&#8217;s not something she&#8217;s ready to make jokes about yet. I imagine it&#8217;s hit her standup by now, but if not, it&#8217;s weighing on her enough, she&#8217;ll have to expunge it sometime.</p>
<p>The creation thing &#8212; she doesn&#8217;t represent that aspect of LDS cosmology very well at any point. So I wonder too about her relationship to that doctrine.</p>
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		<title>By: Wm Morris</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/elna-baker-slash-damage-control/comment-page-1/#comment-39297</link>
		<dc:creator>Wm Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 03:36:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2986#comment-39297</guid>
		<description>I think your #3 is very interesting, Katya. It&#039;s definitely stable for *some* folks, but your right that it may not be for a lot of long-term consumers, which is why there are major resource issues with the radical middle (more on that tomorrow).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think your #3 is very interesting, Katya. It&#8217;s definitely stable for *some* folks, but your right that it may not be for a lot of long-term consumers, which is why there are major resource issues with the radical middle (more on that tomorrow).</p>
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		<title>By: Katya</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/elna-baker-slash-damage-control/comment-page-1/#comment-39296</link>
		<dc:creator>Katya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 02:17:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2986#comment-39296</guid>
		<description>I bought this last weekend in Boston when I needed something to read on the T. A few reactions:

1. I found the ending rather sad, mainly because she doesn&#039;t really come to any satisfying conclusion about which direction to pick. I also thought it was a rather odd ending for a memoir, since memoirs generally end with some a more tidy conclusion (however manufactured it may be).

On the other hand, the whole book is about Elna feeling torn between two worlds, and ending the memoir ambiguously may be a more honest way of approaching the matter.

2. My brother found the &quot;what I believe / what I used to believe&quot; lists pointless. I figured that they were there as guideposts to help no-Mos navigate the world of faith. I was, however, thrown by something listed in the last one, where she says that she no longer believes that after she dies, she can become a God and create world. That particular belief doesn&#039;t seem to have much to do with the story she&#039;s telling in her memoir, but it &lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt; a fairly central tenet of Mormonism, so I was surprised to see her toss it out without any explanation. (I.e., what made her change her mind about that and what else has gone with it?)

3. Elna&#039;s story, the concept of the &quot;radical middle,&quot; and the gap in the &quot;passion / pop curve,&quot; have all got me wondering if the problem with marketing to the middle group in Mormonism isn&#039;t that the group doesn&#039;t exist, but that the group isn&#039;t very stable. I.e., the conservative Mormon market is self-reinforcing, and the non-religious market is equally stable, but the market in the middle is mostly composed of people who are trying to reconcile themselves to one camp or the other, which means that they won&#039;t be around as long-term consumers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I bought this last weekend in Boston when I needed something to read on the T. A few reactions:</p>
<p>1. I found the ending rather sad, mainly because she doesn&#8217;t really come to any satisfying conclusion about which direction to pick. I also thought it was a rather odd ending for a memoir, since memoirs generally end with some a more tidy conclusion (however manufactured it may be).</p>
<p>On the other hand, the whole book is about Elna feeling torn between two worlds, and ending the memoir ambiguously may be a more honest way of approaching the matter.</p>
<p>2. My brother found the &#8220;what I believe / what I used to believe&#8221; lists pointless. I figured that they were there as guideposts to help no-Mos navigate the world of faith. I was, however, thrown by something listed in the last one, where she says that she no longer believes that after she dies, she can become a God and create world. That particular belief doesn&#8217;t seem to have much to do with the story she&#8217;s telling in her memoir, but it <em>is</em> a fairly central tenet of Mormonism, so I was surprised to see her toss it out without any explanation. (I.e., what made her change her mind about that and what else has gone with it?)</p>
<p>3. Elna&#8217;s story, the concept of the &#8220;radical middle,&#8221; and the gap in the &#8220;passion / pop curve,&#8221; have all got me wondering if the problem with marketing to the middle group in Mormonism isn&#8217;t that the group doesn&#8217;t exist, but that the group isn&#8217;t very stable. I.e., the conservative Mormon market is self-reinforcing, and the non-religious market is equally stable, but the market in the middle is mostly composed of people who are trying to reconcile themselves to one camp or the other, which means that they won&#8217;t be around as long-term consumers.</p>
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		<title>By: Th.</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/elna-baker-slash-damage-control/comment-page-1/#comment-38293</link>
		<dc:creator>Th.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 02:05:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2986#comment-38293</guid>
		<description>.

I&#039;ve heard of that article, but I understand it&#039;s not online.

Well, if the book&#039;s big enough, TMZ will dig one up for us....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve heard of that article, but I understand it&#8217;s not online.</p>
<p>Well, if the book&#8217;s big enough, TMZ will dig one up for us&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Bambi</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/elna-baker-slash-damage-control/comment-page-1/#comment-38291</link>
		<dc:creator>Bambi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 00:29:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2986#comment-38291</guid>
		<description>Very well written review.  Thanks for the shout-out, I think.  I haven&#039;t read the book yet, but heard many of her stories before, I think I will find it interesting to hear how the tales were told this time.  I&#039;m just guessing, but I imagine that the stories, like all good stories, will have a little more Frey/Leroy spin on them than what happened in reality...but then, what is reality?  That is also one of Elna&#039;s gifts--to be able to find the drama and comedy in situations where others might not see it initially.  I&#039;m really proud of Elna in following through on her goals.  I hope her book is tremendously successful and that Mormons--both those in NY and those in Idaho Falls will be more open-minded about it like you Th. and less like her Grandpa. 

Anyway, I seem to recall that there might be one pre-thin Elna picture floating around out there.  She wrote an article for ELLE magazine a few years ago about her dramatic weight loss and the choice to get plastic surgery thereafter.  I seem to remember there being a before and after picture in the article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very well written review.  Thanks for the shout-out, I think.  I haven&#8217;t read the book yet, but heard many of her stories before, I think I will find it interesting to hear how the tales were told this time.  I&#8217;m just guessing, but I imagine that the stories, like all good stories, will have a little more Frey/Leroy spin on them than what happened in reality&#8230;but then, what is reality?  That is also one of Elna&#8217;s gifts&#8211;to be able to find the drama and comedy in situations where others might not see it initially.  I&#8217;m really proud of Elna in following through on her goals.  I hope her book is tremendously successful and that Mormons&#8211;both those in NY and those in Idaho Falls will be more open-minded about it like you Th. and less like her Grandpa. </p>
<p>Anyway, I seem to recall that there might be one pre-thin Elna picture floating around out there.  She wrote an article for ELLE magazine a few years ago about her dramatic weight loss and the choice to get plastic surgery thereafter.  I seem to remember there being a before and after picture in the article.</p>
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		<title>By: Th.</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/elna-baker-slash-damage-control/comment-page-1/#comment-38271</link>
		<dc:creator>Th.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 06:30:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2986#comment-38271</guid>
		<description>.

And, to add to that, I think God is much more willing to forgive our foibles that we are willing to forgive ourselves or those close to us --- even if that closeness is mostly imagined.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.</p>
<p>And, to add to that, I think God is much more willing to forgive our foibles that we are willing to forgive ourselves or those close to us &#8212; even if that closeness is mostly imagined.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam K. K. Figueira</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/elna-baker-slash-damage-control/comment-page-1/#comment-38270</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam K. K. Figueira</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 06:26:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2986#comment-38270</guid>
		<description>Very nice, Theric. 

Speaking of Ambers,

I was a missionary during 9/11 and shortly thereafter (three months, max) had a companion close his testimony one fast Sunday by saying that all the people who died were destroyed for their wickedness and &quot;pridefulness.&quot; He still got an &quot;amen,&quot; but I didn&#039;t dare look many people in the eye for the rest of the block. 

I think sometimes God shuts people&#039;s ears to the stupid things missionaries say. We always said that if the Church wasn&#039;t true, the missionaries would have ruined it a long time ago. I think we all have moments when we represent ourselves and the Church very poorly indeed. 

But all is not lost. In my companion&#039;s case, what the congregation sensed (I think) was his powerful, simple faith that God is really the God of this world, and His purposes prevail. What they didn&#039;t know was that this Elder&#039;s learning disability made him socially awkward and prone to such judgments. I was blessed to see him improve a lot over time, and I&#039;d not be surprised if I never find a member of that ward who remembers hearing what to me was an unforgettably embarrassing comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very nice, Theric. </p>
<p>Speaking of Ambers,</p>
<p>I was a missionary during 9/11 and shortly thereafter (three months, max) had a companion close his testimony one fast Sunday by saying that all the people who died were destroyed for their wickedness and &#8220;pridefulness.&#8221; He still got an &#8220;amen,&#8221; but I didn&#8217;t dare look many people in the eye for the rest of the block. </p>
<p>I think sometimes God shuts people&#8217;s ears to the stupid things missionaries say. We always said that if the Church wasn&#8217;t true, the missionaries would have ruined it a long time ago. I think we all have moments when we represent ourselves and the Church very poorly indeed. </p>
<p>But all is not lost. In my companion&#8217;s case, what the congregation sensed (I think) was his powerful, simple faith that God is really the God of this world, and His purposes prevail. What they didn&#8217;t know was that this Elder&#8217;s learning disability made him socially awkward and prone to such judgments. I was blessed to see him improve a lot over time, and I&#8217;d not be surprised if I never find a member of that ward who remembers hearing what to me was an unforgettably embarrassing comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Mephibosheth</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/elna-baker-slash-damage-control/comment-page-1/#comment-38269</link>
		<dc:creator>Mephibosheth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 05:32:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2986#comment-38269</guid>
		<description>Th.,

No commentary was intended, but I enjoyed your analysis, and concur with your choice of b). I use it as a handle because I think it&#039;s a funny name, and the story has a great Mormon and gospel messages on a number of levels (2 Samuel 9).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Th.,</p>
<p>No commentary was intended, but I enjoyed your analysis, and concur with your choice of b). I use it as a handle because I think it&#8217;s a funny name, and the story has a great Mormon and gospel messages on a number of levels (2 Samuel 9).</p>
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		<title>By: Th.</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/elna-baker-slash-damage-control/comment-page-1/#comment-38268</link>
		<dc:creator>Th.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 04:46:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2986#comment-38268</guid>
		<description>.

My pleasure.

In other news, I too read that WSJ article earlier today (and copied a quote into my interview Qs) and several other interesting interviews from online. If you want more Elna tonight before the book&#039;s release (sorry, I don&#039;t know of any midnight release parties), the interwebz can provide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.</p>
<p>My pleasure.</p>
<p>In other news, I too read that WSJ article earlier today (and copied a quote into my interview Qs) and several other interesting interviews from online. If you want more Elna tonight before the book&#8217;s release (sorry, I don&#8217;t know of any midnight release parties), the interwebz can provide.</p>
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