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	<title>Comments on: Abandon All Hope: Mormon Lit Can&#8217;t Be &#8216;Great&#8217;</title>
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	<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/abandon-all-hope-mormon-lit-cant-be-great/</link>
	<description>Mormon Arts and Culture</description>
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		<title>By: ET</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/abandon-all-hope-mormon-lit-cant-be-great/comment-page-1/#comment-36843</link>
		<dc:creator>ET</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 19:26:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2365#comment-36843</guid>
		<description>As far as veiled and unveiled philosophy and metaphor, I think there is value in examining the life of our savior.  Certainly, there were times when he clearly stated his mission and identity.  And yet, he was not above veiled meaning and metaphor as we discern from his many touching parables.  For some, Christ&#039;s clear and compassionate words are enough to understand the basics of the atonement.  For others, it takes a fictional story about a prodigal son.  And perhaps above all, it takes both.  But the point is that it wasn&#039;t done to avoid mockery, but to achieve and perhaps even enhance understanding.  Our canon contains trees of life, olive gardens, refiner&#039;s fires, feet upon the mountains and stones cut out of them, brides and bridegrooms, lambs and Lambs and myriad more metaphors, none of which are given or embraced in the spirit of fear.

By way of comparison, I believe that sf&amp;f resonates not only with Mormons but many religious people because more than any other genre, it deals in archetypes.  There is ultimate good and ultimate evil, and I believe that even in metaphor, we&#039;re drawn to this because we believe it.  In sf&amp;f, weak things confound the wise and conquer the invincible (Lord of the Rings), the truth sets one and all free (The Sword of Shannara), foreordained destinies are realized (Harry Potter), hidden talents are embraced (The Last Starfighter), charity never fails (A Wrinkle in Time), wickedness turns out to not be happiness after all (Star Wars) and redemption is always available even to the most sickened soul (Star Wars again).  To some degree, it could be argued that this is less veiled than a drama which, for all its praise-worthy honesty, fails to recognize so many eternal and archetypal truths.  Stories that feature Mormon characters in Mormon settings, etc., may give a reader more knowledge about our religion, but not necessarily more understanding.  There may be more facts, but not necessarily more truth.

I agree with the statement that one generally arrives at sf&amp;f first and imbues it with the qualities of one&#039;s own personal, moral code.  I have always appreciated the Runelords series by David Farland, who incorporated many LDS themes into his world, many of which deal with the temple and personal perfection.  I found myself learning about my own religion through these veiled metaphors and it motivated me to ponder on clear doctrines and be grateful for that which had always been right in front of me.  Truly, if anything is virtuous, lovely, of good report or praise-worthy, we seek after these things! (Even romance novels)

Finally, I do believe that great American literature (and beyond) has often tended toward demystifying and humanizing its subjects (Grapes of Wrath, Scarlet Letter, Invisible Man, The Great Gatsby, etc.).  But great American literature has also demonized its subjects (1984, Lord of the Flies, Heart of Darkness), cloaked its subjects (Animal Farm, Moby Dick, East of Eden), and more.  I think what unites works like these in the pantheon of great literature is that whatever the subject, however it was treated, they created understanding, and many of them did so in a revolutionary way.  The folly of war understood in &quot;Catch-22;&quot; The power of perseverance understood in &quot;The Old Man and the Sea;&quot; The injustice of prejudice understood in &quot;To Kill A Mockingbird.&quot;  They treat the universal by way of the specific.  I agree with you that a Great Mormon Novel does not have to be liked by Mormons or non-Mormons at all.  However, whether it does so by humanizing us, demonizing us, or deifying us perhaps doesn&#039;t matter so much as whether or not it simply creates a better understanding of us.  To that end, I will accept the best of any and all genres.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as veiled and unveiled philosophy and metaphor, I think there is value in examining the life of our savior.  Certainly, there were times when he clearly stated his mission and identity.  And yet, he was not above veiled meaning and metaphor as we discern from his many touching parables.  For some, Christ&#8217;s clear and compassionate words are enough to understand the basics of the atonement.  For others, it takes a fictional story about a prodigal son.  And perhaps above all, it takes both.  But the point is that it wasn&#8217;t done to avoid mockery, but to achieve and perhaps even enhance understanding.  Our canon contains trees of life, olive gardens, refiner&#8217;s fires, feet upon the mountains and stones cut out of them, brides and bridegrooms, lambs and Lambs and myriad more metaphors, none of which are given or embraced in the spirit of fear.</p>
<p>By way of comparison, I believe that sf&amp;f resonates not only with Mormons but many religious people because more than any other genre, it deals in archetypes.  There is ultimate good and ultimate evil, and I believe that even in metaphor, we&#8217;re drawn to this because we believe it.  In sf&amp;f, weak things confound the wise and conquer the invincible (Lord of the Rings), the truth sets one and all free (The Sword of Shannara), foreordained destinies are realized (Harry Potter), hidden talents are embraced (The Last Starfighter), charity never fails (A Wrinkle in Time), wickedness turns out to not be happiness after all (Star Wars) and redemption is always available even to the most sickened soul (Star Wars again).  To some degree, it could be argued that this is less veiled than a drama which, for all its praise-worthy honesty, fails to recognize so many eternal and archetypal truths.  Stories that feature Mormon characters in Mormon settings, etc., may give a reader more knowledge about our religion, but not necessarily more understanding.  There may be more facts, but not necessarily more truth.</p>
<p>I agree with the statement that one generally arrives at sf&amp;f first and imbues it with the qualities of one&#8217;s own personal, moral code.  I have always appreciated the Runelords series by David Farland, who incorporated many LDS themes into his world, many of which deal with the temple and personal perfection.  I found myself learning about my own religion through these veiled metaphors and it motivated me to ponder on clear doctrines and be grateful for that which had always been right in front of me.  Truly, if anything is virtuous, lovely, of good report or praise-worthy, we seek after these things! (Even romance novels)</p>
<p>Finally, I do believe that great American literature (and beyond) has often tended toward demystifying and humanizing its subjects (Grapes of Wrath, Scarlet Letter, Invisible Man, The Great Gatsby, etc.).  But great American literature has also demonized its subjects (1984, Lord of the Flies, Heart of Darkness), cloaked its subjects (Animal Farm, Moby Dick, East of Eden), and more.  I think what unites works like these in the pantheon of great literature is that whatever the subject, however it was treated, they created understanding, and many of them did so in a revolutionary way.  The folly of war understood in &#8220;Catch-22;&#8221; The power of perseverance understood in &#8220;The Old Man and the Sea;&#8221; The injustice of prejudice understood in &#8220;To Kill A Mockingbird.&#8221;  They treat the universal by way of the specific.  I agree with you that a Great Mormon Novel does not have to be liked by Mormons or non-Mormons at all.  However, whether it does so by humanizing us, demonizing us, or deifying us perhaps doesn&#8217;t matter so much as whether or not it simply creates a better understanding of us.  To that end, I will accept the best of any and all genres.</p>
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		<title>By: Jared</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/abandon-all-hope-mormon-lit-cant-be-great/comment-page-1/#comment-36738</link>
		<dc:creator>Jared</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 20:13:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2365#comment-36738</guid>
		<description>Some interesting insights into the formal and doctrinal elements in the Mormon fiction of The Book Jer3miah that seem to be spurring such a fascinating debate:

http://gideonburton.typepad.com/gideon_burtons_blog/2009/06/jer3miah.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some interesting insights into the formal and doctrinal elements in the Mormon fiction of The Book Jer3miah that seem to be spurring such a fascinating debate:</p>
<p><a href="http://gideonburton.typepad.com/gideon_burtons_blog/2009/06/jer3miah.html" rel="nofollow">http://gideonburton.typepad.com/gideon_burtons_blog/2009/06/jer3miah.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Th.</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/abandon-all-hope-mormon-lit-cant-be-great/comment-page-1/#comment-36720</link>
		<dc:creator>Th.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 14:22:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2365#comment-36720</guid>
		<description>.

I probably should have mentioned it&#039;s YA. I know how you can get about YA. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.</p>
<p>I probably should have mentioned it&#8217;s YA. I know how you can get about YA. :)</p>
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		<title>By: MoJo</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/abandon-all-hope-mormon-lit-cant-be-great/comment-page-1/#comment-36717</link>
		<dc:creator>MoJo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:47:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2365#comment-36717</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Th. I&#039;ve put that on my Amazon Wish List along with Lost Boys.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Th. I&#8217;ve put that on my Amazon Wish List along with Lost Boys.</p>
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		<title>By: Th.</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/abandon-all-hope-mormon-lit-cant-be-great/comment-page-1/#comment-36715</link>
		<dc:creator>Th.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:38:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2365#comment-36715</guid>
		<description>.

MoJo---

Although it&#039;s YA, we also have &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/an-artist-is-like-a-big-fat-blender-an-interview-with-kristen-d-randle/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt;. (Which I own but haven&#039;t read. Must like Card&#039;s &lt;i&gt;Lost Boys&lt;/i&gt; which I understand will also qualify.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.</p>
<p>MoJo&#8212;</p>
<p>Although it&#8217;s YA, we also have <a href="http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/an-artist-is-like-a-big-fat-blender-an-interview-with-kristen-d-randle/" rel="nofollow">this</a>. (Which I own but haven&#8217;t read. Must like Card&#8217;s <i>Lost Boys</i> which I understand will also qualify.)</p>
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		<title>By: MoJo</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/abandon-all-hope-mormon-lit-cant-be-great/comment-page-1/#comment-36714</link>
		<dc:creator>MoJo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2365#comment-36714</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;To just pin that on SF&amp;F isn’t fair. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well, now wait a minute. When SF&amp;F is nearly *always* used as a vehicle for metaphor, instead of characters coming right out and saying, &quot;We&#039;re Mormon, this is what we think, this is how we live, and this is how we&#039;re supposed to live, but we&#039;re struggling with that,&quot; how is that not fair?

Point me to one or two mainstream books besides Saints (which is an historical, no?) with modern LDS characters doing what they do, living what they believe (or trying to or having reasons why they&#039;re not), and explaining those beliefs in a somewhat understandable manner to the masses.

I have ordered Shannon Hale&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&amp;field-keywords=shannon+hale&amp;x=0&amp;y=0&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Actor and the Housewife&lt;/a&gt; to see if it does what *I* want done.

Now, I&#039;ll admit I stuck my foot down my throat by saying it was cowardly to use SF&amp;F to explore our philosophies and, possibly, lifestyle, but you can&#039;t also say &quot;But isn’t that what ANY fiction does? It creates a world where we can explore hard and scary things in safety&quot; because there are a lot of church members who will not find putting us explicitly on display in mainstream fiction to be doing it in safety. SF&amp;F provides the cover of safety from the mockery that we fear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>To just pin that on SF&amp;F isn’t fair. </p></blockquote>
<p>Well, now wait a minute. When SF&amp;F is nearly *always* used as a vehicle for metaphor, instead of characters coming right out and saying, &#8220;We&#8217;re Mormon, this is what we think, this is how we live, and this is how we&#8217;re supposed to live, but we&#8217;re struggling with that,&#8221; how is that not fair?</p>
<p>Point me to one or two mainstream books besides Saints (which is an historical, no?) with modern LDS characters doing what they do, living what they believe (or trying to or having reasons why they&#8217;re not), and explaining those beliefs in a somewhat understandable manner to the masses.</p>
<p>I have ordered Shannon Hale&#8217;s <a href="http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&amp;field-keywords=shannon+hale&amp;x=0&amp;y=0" rel="nofollow">The Actor and the Housewife</a> to see if it does what *I* want done.</p>
<p>Now, I&#8217;ll admit I stuck my foot down my throat by saying it was cowardly to use SF&amp;F to explore our philosophies and, possibly, lifestyle, but you can&#8217;t also say &#8220;But isn’t that what ANY fiction does? It creates a world where we can explore hard and scary things in safety&#8221; because there are a lot of church members who will not find putting us explicitly on display in mainstream fiction to be doing it in safety. SF&amp;F provides the cover of safety from the mockery that we fear.</p>
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		<title>By: Mahonri</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/abandon-all-hope-mormon-lit-cant-be-great/comment-page-1/#comment-36711</link>
		<dc:creator>Mahonri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 06:04:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2365#comment-36711</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m glad Jonathan pointed up _Saints_ as OSC&#039;s contribution to the &quot;literary&quot; genre. I think it&#039;s one of his finest and a personal favorite. And it doesn&#039;t separate itself with the curtain of SF&amp;F... a genre I love, by the way, so see no issue with it. But isn&#039;t that what ANY fiction does? It creates a world where we can explore hard and scary things in safety. To just pin that on SF&amp;F isn&#039;t fair. SF&amp;F just adds another layer, but it is not different in its purpose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad Jonathan pointed up _Saints_ as OSC&#8217;s contribution to the &#8220;literary&#8221; genre. I think it&#8217;s one of his finest and a personal favorite. And it doesn&#8217;t separate itself with the curtain of SF&amp;F&#8230; a genre I love, by the way, so see no issue with it. But isn&#8217;t that what ANY fiction does? It creates a world where we can explore hard and scary things in safety. To just pin that on SF&amp;F isn&#8217;t fair. SF&amp;F just adds another layer, but it is not different in its purpose.</p>
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		<title>By: Theric Jepson</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/abandon-all-hope-mormon-lit-cant-be-great/comment-page-1/#comment-36655</link>
		<dc:creator>Theric Jepson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:37:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2365#comment-36655</guid>
		<description>.

Seriously. Have you read Added Upon? Stake Novelist sounds like Best Job Even. Feed the swans all day and people call it work..... Awesome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.</p>
<p>Seriously. Have you read Added Upon? Stake Novelist sounds like Best Job Even. Feed the swans all day and people call it work&#8230;.. Awesome.</p>
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		<title>By: john f.</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/abandon-all-hope-mormon-lit-cant-be-great/comment-page-1/#comment-36654</link>
		<dc:creator>john f.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:28:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2365#comment-36654</guid>
		<description>It is written.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is written.</p>
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		<title>By: Wm Morris</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2009/abandon-all-hope-mormon-lit-cant-be-great/comment-page-1/#comment-36653</link>
		<dc:creator>Wm Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:54:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=2365#comment-36653</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m hoping that the Millennium hits when I&#039;m in my 50s and that I get called as the Stake Novelist of the Stake Cultural Affairs Committee.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m hoping that the Millennium hits when I&#8217;m in my 50s and that I get called as the Stake Novelist of the Stake Cultural Affairs Committee.</p>
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