<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Dissension in the Ranks</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.motleyvision.org/2007/dissension-in-the-ranks/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2007/dissension-in-the-ranks/</link>
	<description>Mormon Arts and Culture</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 05:30:14 -0500</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Th.</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2007/dissension-in-the-ranks/comment-page-1/#comment-31397</link>
		<dc:creator>Th.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 20:49:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=328#comment-31397</guid>
		<description>.

This was a very insightful post (as opposed to inciteful, which I accidentally typed first)--I&#039;m sorry I missed it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.</p>
<p>This was a very insightful post (as opposed to inciteful, which I accidentally typed first)&#8211;I&#8217;m sorry I missed it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Franc Li</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2007/dissension-in-the-ranks/comment-page-1/#comment-11676</link>
		<dc:creator>Franc Li</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2007 11:18:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=328#comment-11676</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m so relieved to hear Neil LaBute took the &quot;first great writer&quot; hit.  Now the rest of us can blossom without fear!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m so relieved to hear Neil LaBute took the &#8220;first great writer&#8221; hit.  Now the rest of us can blossom without fear!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TitusTodd</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2007/dissension-in-the-ranks/comment-page-1/#comment-11581</link>
		<dc:creator>TitusTodd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Mar 2007 22:13:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=328#comment-11581</guid>
		<description>I meant to also state a discussion forum such as Nauvoo misses out on some excellent participation at times due to those who don&#039;t wish to weather those that live in their narrow worlds.  I can understand the frustration but I wish that wasn&#039;t the case.

So, welcome back from your mission, Anneke.  I would enjoy your return to Nauvoo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I meant to also state a discussion forum such as Nauvoo misses out on some excellent participation at times due to those who don&#8217;t wish to weather those that live in their narrow worlds.  I can understand the frustration but I wish that wasn&#8217;t the case.</p>
<p>So, welcome back from your mission, Anneke.  I would enjoy your return to Nauvoo.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TitusTodd</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2007/dissension-in-the-ranks/comment-page-1/#comment-11579</link>
		<dc:creator>TitusTodd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Mar 2007 22:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=328#comment-11579</guid>
		<description>I agree with your comments, Anneke.  As a regular over at Nauvoo I have to state that the response to your comment was not overwhelmingly negative (mostly not, in fact).  Once person responded, &quot;Don&#039;t hold back, Susie, tell us how you really feel.&quot;  That comment doesn&#039;t necessarily have to be interpreted negatively - it could be referring to the detail and length of your comment.  That doesn&#039;t make your comments wrong.  As I already stated, I agree with you.  

I&#039;m not usually one to offend nor am I one to take offense easily - too much energy can be spent doing so.  Constructive criticism is often healthy except for those who can&#039;t take it but then they live in a narrow world and get scared when you try to open it up for them.  I&#039;m sure that is some kind of phobia?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with your comments, Anneke.  As a regular over at Nauvoo I have to state that the response to your comment was not overwhelmingly negative (mostly not, in fact).  Once person responded, &#8220;Don&#8217;t hold back, Susie, tell us how you really feel.&#8221;  That comment doesn&#8217;t necessarily have to be interpreted negatively &#8211; it could be referring to the detail and length of your comment.  That doesn&#8217;t make your comments wrong.  As I already stated, I agree with you.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not usually one to offend nor am I one to take offense easily &#8211; too much energy can be spent doing so.  Constructive criticism is often healthy except for those who can&#8217;t take it but then they live in a narrow world and get scared when you try to open it up for them.  I&#8217;m sure that is some kind of phobia?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eric Thompson</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2007/dissension-in-the-ranks/comment-page-1/#comment-11546</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Thompson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2007 23:32:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=328#comment-11546</guid>
		<description>My movie is not posted (to my knowledge).  Unfortunately, neither my abilities nor my ambitions seem likely to attain the level necessary to change that any time soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My movie is not posted (to my knowledge).  Unfortunately, neither my abilities nor my ambitions seem likely to attain the level necessary to change that any time soon.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: C. L. Hanson</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2007/dissension-in-the-ranks/comment-page-1/#comment-11024</link>
		<dc:creator>C. L. Hanson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Mar 2007 09:08:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=328#comment-11024</guid>
		<description>By the way, there&#039;s a similar discussion (perhaps more closely related to Kent&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=290&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;What Makes a Book Mormon Anyway?&lt;/a&gt; post) taking place on a new Mormon group blog &lt;a href=&quot;http://latterdaymainstreet.com/?p=19&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, there&#8217;s a similar discussion (perhaps more closely related to Kent&#8217;s <a href="http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=290" rel="nofollow">What Makes a Book Mormon Anyway?</a> post) taking place on a new Mormon group blog <a href="http://latterdaymainstreet.com/?p=19" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: greenfrog</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2007/dissension-in-the-ranks/comment-page-1/#comment-10806</link>
		<dc:creator>greenfrog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2007 00:50:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=328#comment-10806</guid>
		<description>bRadlyaLLen wrote:
&lt;i&gt;One of the recurring themes that we keep coming back to on this site is the notion of sacrifice. What do we sacrifice to be worthy members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saint? &lt;/i&gt;

Perhaps the discussion circles this particular point because both the best of artists and the best of saints seek to capture and articulate (and by articulating, to embody) truths.  And when the two yield contrasting conclusions, the friction generates some light by which we can examine the truths to which we hold.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bRadlyaLLen wrote:<br />
<i>One of the recurring themes that we keep coming back to on this site is the notion of sacrifice. What do we sacrifice to be worthy members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saint? </i></p>
<p>Perhaps the discussion circles this particular point because both the best of artists and the best of saints seek to capture and articulate (and by articulating, to embody) truths.  And when the two yield contrasting conclusions, the friction generates some light by which we can examine the truths to which we hold.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: bRadlyaLLen</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2007/dissension-in-the-ranks/comment-page-1/#comment-10741</link>
		<dc:creator>bRadlyaLLen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Mar 2007 19:51:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=328#comment-10741</guid>
		<description>Funny, isnt it, that most of the discussions posted on this site relate to the relationship between true discipleship and expressions of faith through the arts/humanities? This is the most intriguing aspect of these discussions and their implications. 

One of the recurring themes that we keep coming back to on this site is the notion of sacrifice. What do we sacrifice to be worthy members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saint? How far does discipleship extend and to what extent do personalities and our personal expressions of faith interact with that discipleship?

These are the issues that keep me reading this site. I love the level of insight and intelligence displayed by the &#039;posters&#039; and by the &#039;responders.&#039; This kind of thinking is stimulating, engaging, and certainly helps one to confront one&#039;s own opinions about the separations between the faith and the syncretistic culture spawned by the faith. 

I have always been fascinated by the culture and the fascination so many possess with it. At times I am equally embarrassed/proud by the way in which our culture expresses itself publicly, and wish that many would think more carefully about where they cast their &quot;pearls.&quot;

But, I suppose that experimentation is one of the fundamental ways we express our culture and, as such, can be a very positive thing for an artist whose work is often a very personal journey to &quot;enter the world&quot; and to understand the relationship between faith and the need to express faith artistically.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny, isnt it, that most of the discussions posted on this site relate to the relationship between true discipleship and expressions of faith through the arts/humanities? This is the most intriguing aspect of these discussions and their implications. </p>
<p>One of the recurring themes that we keep coming back to on this site is the notion of sacrifice. What do we sacrifice to be worthy members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saint? How far does discipleship extend and to what extent do personalities and our personal expressions of faith interact with that discipleship?</p>
<p>These are the issues that keep me reading this site. I love the level of insight and intelligence displayed by the &#8216;posters&#8217; and by the &#8216;responders.&#8217; This kind of thinking is stimulating, engaging, and certainly helps one to confront one&#8217;s own opinions about the separations between the faith and the syncretistic culture spawned by the faith. </p>
<p>I have always been fascinated by the culture and the fascination so many possess with it. At times I am equally embarrassed/proud by the way in which our culture expresses itself publicly, and wish that many would think more carefully about where they cast their &#8220;pearls.&#8221;</p>
<p>But, I suppose that experimentation is one of the fundamental ways we express our culture and, as such, can be a very positive thing for an artist whose work is often a very personal journey to &#8220;enter the world&#8221; and to understand the relationship between faith and the need to express faith artistically.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Hellmut</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2007/dissension-in-the-ranks/comment-page-1/#comment-10729</link>
		<dc:creator>Hellmut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Mar 2007 18:48:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=328#comment-10729</guid>
		<description>I would love to see your movie about spousal abuse, Eric.  Have you posted it somewhere?  It&#039;s a fascinating topic that every home teacher ought to understand.

Thanks for your kind words, Mahonri.  I am not sure that it is correct to say that Tony Kushner is loyal to a party.  He is certainly loyal to certain principles that might more consistent with a liberal or radical world view but that&#039;s different from drumming</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would love to see your movie about spousal abuse, Eric.  Have you posted it somewhere?  It&#8217;s a fascinating topic that every home teacher ought to understand.</p>
<p>Thanks for your kind words, Mahonri.  I am not sure that it is correct to say that Tony Kushner is loyal to a party.  He is certainly loyal to certain principles that might more consistent with a liberal or radical world view but that&#8217;s different from drumming</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eric Thompson</title>
		<link>http://www.motleyvision.org/2007/dissension-in-the-ranks/comment-page-1/#comment-10468</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Thompson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Mar 2007 08:12:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=328#comment-10468</guid>
		<description>My thanks to Anneke who invited me into this forum.  I look forward to accepting the invitation to address &quot;Mormon&quot; cinema, as it has come to be called, in the uplifting manner that she proposes.  I think my task may be greater than the filmmakers&#039;.

First of all, there is a distinction between entertainment and art.  For example, I think most of what we call “Mormon cinema” is entertaining, but not overly artistic by the etymological standard.  The word &quot;art,&quot; stems from &quot;artifice,&quot; meaning, “fake.” “An imitation of reality.&quot;  And while I agree that it is unwise to pigeonhole art with restrictive definitions - as it continues to evolve - I do think it safe to say that art is largely about the pursuit of truth.  By creating an imitation of reality - be that reality abstract, expressionist, what have you - we seek to understand something about things as they were, are, and forever will be (D&amp;C 93:24).  If you think about it, the art that moves you probably speaks to some element of truth, even if that truth is idealistic.

Understand that there&#039;s a significant distinction between truth and fact.  The facts of Star Wars (Death Stars, Sith Lords, Wookies) may not be real, but the truths (goodness, friendship, faith) very much are.  Hence art can be &quot;authentic&quot; without being &quot;realistic.&quot;  (It also doesn’t hurt when truth is entertaining.)

My point is this:  If the purpose of &quot;artifice&quot; is to grapple with and understand truth (and if it&#039;s not, then ignore this), then a work of &quot;art&quot; becomes a work of honesty.

However, as noted by Hellmut, there is an audience to consider.  And the fact is, honesty is a shared experience.  Christ offered truth.  Disciples accepted it, Pharisees didn’t, and the difference between the two can be construed as a function of personal honesty.  Many claim to be artists who are all-too-willing to proclaim truth, but at the end of the day remain unwilling to receive it.  This is like unto the warning issued in the Book of Mormon, wherein artists &quot;think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not.&quot; (2 Ne. 9:28)

I made a film once about spousal abuse, which is an extremely personal issue for me.  In order to create greater awareness, I made a film in which the audience was led to sympathize with the romantic lead, only to discover at the end of the piece that he was abusive.  The purpose was two fold: First, to interrogate the idea that abusive people don&#039;t recognize it in themselves (being governed largely by crippling insecurities), and second, to propose that abusive people deserve perhaps something more conducive to healing from us than outright disdain.  I wasn’t even preaching; merely exploring the subject.  The audience reaction to the film&#039;s craft was largely positive.  But they were completely divided on the treatment of the subject.  Should I be praised or blamed?  Some said it changed their lives for the better, others that it was diabolically misogynist.  I learned, in a very powerful way, that the audience always brings baggage into the theater with them and that ultimately - AS AN ARTIST - I am not responsible for it.  I am beholden to the truth, and if I have done that, then I remit to them a choice, which the governance of sound principles must help them make on their own.  I believe that an audience is just as responsible for viewing art as the artist is for making it.  And I think this is where people become offended:  when an artist struggles to creatively express some element of truth to an audience in search of entertainment... or vice versa.  The sacred mistakenly becomes profane... or vice versa.  Hence art is a very personal thing, requiring honesty whether we are givers or receivers.

To bring the subject full circle, therefore, &quot;Mormon&quot; cinema - or art - is a gross misnomer.  It is neither the purpose nor the responsibility of the church, its leaders, or the God who governs both, to promote art.  The concern of the church is to bring men unto Christ by providing correct teachings and ordinances of salvation administered with authority.  It is, however, the presupposed belief of all members to seek after anything virtuous, lovely, of good report, or praiseworthy; to seek truth.  Therefore, &quot;art,&quot; a process through which reality is recreated by any of a vast number of methods, styles, crafts, etc., in order to discover truth, is inherently Mormon.  And as such, it is personal to all who experience it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My thanks to Anneke who invited me into this forum.  I look forward to accepting the invitation to address &#8220;Mormon&#8221; cinema, as it has come to be called, in the uplifting manner that she proposes.  I think my task may be greater than the filmmakers&#8217;.</p>
<p>First of all, there is a distinction between entertainment and art.  For example, I think most of what we call “Mormon cinema” is entertaining, but not overly artistic by the etymological standard.  The word &#8220;art,&#8221; stems from &#8220;artifice,&#8221; meaning, “fake.” “An imitation of reality.&#8221;  And while I agree that it is unwise to pigeonhole art with restrictive definitions &#8211; as it continues to evolve &#8211; I do think it safe to say that art is largely about the pursuit of truth.  By creating an imitation of reality &#8211; be that reality abstract, expressionist, what have you &#8211; we seek to understand something about things as they were, are, and forever will be (D&amp;C 93:24).  If you think about it, the art that moves you probably speaks to some element of truth, even if that truth is idealistic.</p>
<p>Understand that there&#8217;s a significant distinction between truth and fact.  The facts of Star Wars (Death Stars, Sith Lords, Wookies) may not be real, but the truths (goodness, friendship, faith) very much are.  Hence art can be &#8220;authentic&#8221; without being &#8220;realistic.&#8221;  (It also doesn’t hurt when truth is entertaining.)</p>
<p>My point is this:  If the purpose of &#8220;artifice&#8221; is to grapple with and understand truth (and if it&#8217;s not, then ignore this), then a work of &#8220;art&#8221; becomes a work of honesty.</p>
<p>However, as noted by Hellmut, there is an audience to consider.  And the fact is, honesty is a shared experience.  Christ offered truth.  Disciples accepted it, Pharisees didn’t, and the difference between the two can be construed as a function of personal honesty.  Many claim to be artists who are all-too-willing to proclaim truth, but at the end of the day remain unwilling to receive it.  This is like unto the warning issued in the Book of Mormon, wherein artists &#8220;think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not.&#8221; (2 Ne. 9:28)</p>
<p>I made a film once about spousal abuse, which is an extremely personal issue for me.  In order to create greater awareness, I made a film in which the audience was led to sympathize with the romantic lead, only to discover at the end of the piece that he was abusive.  The purpose was two fold: First, to interrogate the idea that abusive people don&#8217;t recognize it in themselves (being governed largely by crippling insecurities), and second, to propose that abusive people deserve perhaps something more conducive to healing from us than outright disdain.  I wasn’t even preaching; merely exploring the subject.  The audience reaction to the film&#8217;s craft was largely positive.  But they were completely divided on the treatment of the subject.  Should I be praised or blamed?  Some said it changed their lives for the better, others that it was diabolically misogynist.  I learned, in a very powerful way, that the audience always brings baggage into the theater with them and that ultimately &#8211; AS AN ARTIST &#8211; I am not responsible for it.  I am beholden to the truth, and if I have done that, then I remit to them a choice, which the governance of sound principles must help them make on their own.  I believe that an audience is just as responsible for viewing art as the artist is for making it.  And I think this is where people become offended:  when an artist struggles to creatively express some element of truth to an audience in search of entertainment&#8230; or vice versa.  The sacred mistakenly becomes profane&#8230; or vice versa.  Hence art is a very personal thing, requiring honesty whether we are givers or receivers.</p>
<p>To bring the subject full circle, therefore, &#8220;Mormon&#8221; cinema &#8211; or art &#8211; is a gross misnomer.  It is neither the purpose nor the responsibility of the church, its leaders, or the God who governs both, to promote art.  The concern of the church is to bring men unto Christ by providing correct teachings and ordinances of salvation administered with authority.  It is, however, the presupposed belief of all members to seek after anything virtuous, lovely, of good report, or praiseworthy; to seek truth.  Therefore, &#8220;art,&#8221; a process through which reality is recreated by any of a vast number of methods, styles, crafts, etc., in order to discover truth, is inherently Mormon.  And as such, it is personal to all who experience it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

