Comments on: Celebrate RamaChristmaHanaKwanzaSmith Day!!

By: CBiden

CBiden — Wed, 17 Jan 2007 20:33:49 +0000

Just passing by and was astounded to read JKS’ remark that Catholics (I presume it was to them he was referring) just worship on Christmas and Easter. In fact, we have “worship” or rather Mass, every day, although most observant Catholics mostly attend on Sundays. Those days are certainly significant as they commorate the Incarnation and the Resurrection, but our most sacred rites are celebrated every day of the year. It is true that these Masses are often crowded because many cultural Catholics attend only on these days or because, as our priest stated on Christmas, they come out of love and respect for family and friends, but it’s not because we “pack it all in” at Christmas and Easter.

By: JKS

JKS — Tue, 02 Jan 2007 01:31:38 +0000

We have SO much that sets us apart. We don’t need a few days a year to do it.
We have FHE EVERY week. We have 3 hours of church EVERY Sunday. We have general conferance twice a year. We have Fast & Testimony meetings once a month. We have temple worship.
Besides all of these “rituals” that happen every week, or every month, or twice a year, we also have other doctrinal things that set us apart.
We have an additional set of scriptures.
We have a Word of Wisdom.
We have strict moral codes.
A “holiday” once, or a few times a year, is nice for someone who is not connected to their religion on a weekly, daily, or hourly basis.
A previous bloggernacle post commented about how other religions have better Christmas programs than Mormons do. Maybe because they have to pack it all in to just Christmas Mass and Easter Mass. We do it every Sunday. We worship EVERY Sunday. (We also DO have Christmas choir performances, Christmas parties, or other activities/performances organized locally).

By: Katie P.

Katie P. — Mon, 01 Jan 2007 16:20:55 +0000

I do not oppose the traditions because I don’t see their value. I think lots of things are valuable and necessary that shouldn’t be packaged with the scriptures and General Conference. Tying in traditions and holidays to Mormondom would be adding to the list of things someone must accept (or at least be comfortable with) in order to be fully Mormon, and I am uncomfortable with adding things to the list that aren’t actually doctrinal.

By: Ardis Parshall

Ardis Parshall — Sun, 31 Dec 2006 21:52:01 +0000

Kent, I look forward to your post on the benefits of a Mormon culture. I expect I’ll agree.

Using Katie’s reference to “things I do because I’m an American” as a starting point:

We vote, pay taxes, and serve on juries because we’re Americans; we attend worship meetings, pay tithing, and serve in local callings because we’re Mormons. Those might be examples of “doctrine” in both cases — the basic outward requirements of being active participants in those organizations.

Less visible, inward commitments to country (”patriotism,” however you want to define it personally) are analogous to inward commitments to church (”testimony,” however you want to define it), and both types of commitments, if sincere, lead to other actions (not littering for Americanism, exercising patience with difficult neighbors for Mormonism, perhaps).

Both worlds furnish opportunities for cheesy entrepreneurs: made-in-China paper flags, Uncle Sam’s picture on ads for furniture sales, support-our-troops magnets for car trunks; and CTR rings on adults, Moroni action figures, and Temple Square shot glasses in Utah gift shops.

But somewhere between the formal requirements for membership, the inward personal commitment, and the kitsch, lies something else — culture. For America, we have poetry and literature that we all recognize, fireworks, patriotic songs, the Pledge of Allegiance, bunting, civic holidays, rising to our feet in the presence of the flag or marching soldiers or other symbols deserving respect.

What do we have for Mormon culture? Some cherished hymns, rising in respect when the church president enters a room, and — ?

That’s what I hope Kent will expand on, and what I hope people like Katie might think about supporting, in addition to all the things we each do because we’re also members of other groups.

By: Katie P.

Katie P. — Sat, 30 Dec 2006 15:27:35 +0000

I don’t agree, but I look forward to reading your post on the subject. :)

By: Kent Larsen

Kent Larsen — Fri, 29 Dec 2006 16:27:28 +0000

Katie, you are reading something into what I say that isn’t there. I never said that “identity and culture need to come from the church.” I don’t think that the Church needs to promote culture (although it can’t help but do so and does so regularly).

I AM saying that culture is important and that we, members of the Church, need a Mormon culture, one that helps us understand and appreciate the gospel, as well as become more connected with each other.

I’ll have to write a new post at some time on this issue — why we need a Mormon culture. Just let me observe that there is a significant difference between activity rates in Utah, where there is a sort of Mormon culture, and outside Utah, and, worst of all, most international areas, where there is little or no Mormon culture available.

I won’t argue for members that remain so merely because of Mormon culture. But I’m certain that even for the most doctrinally-oriented members, culture helps maintain and strengthen faith. Like it or not, we do need a Mormon culture.

By: Katie P.

Katie P. — Fri, 29 Dec 2006 15:29:38 +0000

Hhmm…I think I may disagree with the idea that things like identity and culture need to come from the church. I think there are many things that human beings need in order to be happy, but the Mormondom doesn’t need to provide all of them. I’m a big fan of traditions and social rituals and all of those things, but I like drawing a distinction between the things I do because I’m a member of my family and an American and a Texan and the things I do because of my religion.

By: Kent Larsen

Kent Larsen — Fri, 29 Dec 2006 06:47:56 +0000

Good point, Katie.

I agree that not having holidays does free us a to celebrate whatever culture we find ourselves in.

But I do think we need one or two holidays — something to set us apart. Part of the reason I disagree with your point is that for those of us outside of Utah and the Intermountain West, it seems like we have nearly no culture at all!

My (perhaps unstated) premise is that Mormon culture needs to be strengthened, and that Mormon culture is an important way to strengthen members of the Church. So I guess I disagree that holidays would “clutter up” the gospel or that Mormon culture could not be “essential” or “doctrinal.”

By: Katie P.

Katie P. — Thu, 28 Dec 2006 21:50:06 +0000

I like that we don’t have holidays. I like that you can be fully Mormon and stil celebrate whatever culture you find yourself. I think communal holidays would clutter up the gospel and the church with even more culture that is fun but not essential or doctrinal.

By: Barry Eidenberg

Barry Eidenberg — Thu, 28 Dec 2006 02:31:51 +0000

Mahonri, all you do is nit pick…